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Is there actually any agreement among scientists that there is a causal relationship between fast food consumption and obesity? I mean at an epidemiological lev

Is there actually any agreement among scientists that there is a causal relationship between fast food consumption and obesity? I mean at an epidemiological level -- obviously if I eat ten Whoppers a day, I'm going to have a problem. My favorite recent hypothesis for the obesity epidemic is the increase in snacking [1]. It seems very easy to believe that highly preserved snacks are becoming more available in these countries at the same time as fast food does. [1]: https://www.vox.com/2015/2/17/8051367/obesity-snacks https://www.vox.com/2015/2/17/8051367/obesity-snacks

nickbauman 9y ago
I'd bet if you're an adult and regularly eating processed, ready-to-eat food out of a bag or a box the chances that you're already obese is probably many times more than the overall population.
ohazi 9y ago
If you had to point at something in the fast food category, my money would be on the insanely portioned sugary drinks. Maybe fries too, because people buy combo meals and then scarf everything down without stopping to see whether or not they actually feel full. If you go to a fast food restaurant and get just a burger and water, I don't think it would actually be that bad for you, even if you ate like this more often than you should.
- greggman 9y ago
  my anecdote: I switched from coke to diet coke and stopped eating the fries. No other changes to lifestyle. Lost 30lbs (210 -> 180)
  - thisisit 9y ago
    In how many months ?
    - greggman 9y ago
      Maybe 6-9 months? It's been a while since I started. I've generally stuck to it for 22 years. Twice during those years I've had a period of regular exercise of some form and gotten down another 10 or so lbs, around ~170 but then I stop and it goes back to 180. I'm 5'10"
- dagw 9y ago
  my money would be on the insanely portioned sugary drinks. When visiting the States I also found that the US tradition of offering free refills on sodas led to me drinking more soda that I otherwise would have.
wallace_f 9y ago
A teacher lost ~60lbs on a McDonalds-only diet.(1) As the article states, the reasons for obesity are "complex," and 'involve blaming society, and everyone else' for individual choices. The most interesting thing about this topic is why does if fit entirely into the "can't blame them category," when there are still so many examples--albeit on a diminishing list--of other personal choices that one may be acceptably villified for--many of which don't even involve environmental destruction and animal rights abuses? Yes culture, wealth, consumer products, job opportunities, and corn subsidies all participate; but perhaps the biggest problem is one of personal responsibility. By contrast, in Japan obesity wins you an automatic trip to counseling(2). 1-https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2D79329158 https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eatin... 2-https://www.bu.edu/themovement/2011/05/29/the-fats-on-fire/ https://www.bu.edu/themovement/2011/05/29/the-fats-on-fire/
- greggman 9y ago
  I think Japan is a great example of personal responsibility. Food in Japan or at least the major cities is ridiculously easy to come by. Convenience stores every 2-3 minutes open 24 hours with loads of food, snacks, pastries, donuts, ice cream, liquor, beer. Liquor and Beer are as low as $1.20 a can. All the super markets now also carry tons of ready to eat foods and meals (because convenience stores were eating into their market) as well as chips, desserts, liquor, etc... Many more restaurants than anywhere else I've lived are open until morning. And there is fast food of all sorts as well, way more bread/pastries stores than just about anywhere on the planet. And yes, they have tons of greasy salty and sugary foods available. And yet Japanese aren't nearly as obese. That would seem to suggest either genetics or self control. Certain things help like often (not always) portions are smaller but you can always buy 2+
  - quwert95 9y ago
    Just expanding on your idea here - Japan also has a million times more vending machines as the US and they're full of Pepsi/Coke products, fruit juices, energy drinks, and even ice cream or beer. At 2am you can get your carb fix across the street from your apartment for a measly 100yen.
will_brown 9y ago
>Is there actually any agreement among scientists that there is a causal relationship between fast food consumption and obesity? Yes and no...part of the problem, much like cigarettes there are many industry paid physicians and scientists happy to create confusion and dispel truth. And just like the cigarette industry who took their carcinogenic products to countries with less regulation, fast food and sugar industries are doing the same. First fast food is high calorie and low in nutrients. Its also high in carbs which tends to trigger insulin production, insulin enlarges cell size in the body including fat cells priming a body for obesity (just add excess calories here). Additionally, fast food is notoriously inflammatory (sugar, grain fed meat, gluten, additives, saturated fat, BPA type toxins, preservatives, fried, etc...) and inflammation is linked to obesity, of course coming full circle you will find scientists paid by the sugar/fast food industries happy to claim its the other way around and that obesity is linked to metabolic inflammation. I will highlight the comment below regarding the teacher on the McD's diet for 6 months who lost ~60lbs is the type of misinformation the food industry thrives off. Just to highlight, the individual lost 56lbs but was still classified as obese, the individual limited himself to 2,000 calories per day (which can easily be exceeded in a single meal) and the individual walked 45 minuted everyday, but there is no information pre-McD diet.
deleted 9y ago
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halotrope 9y ago
In his lecture “sugar the bitter truth” [1] Robert Lustig talks about the obesity epidemic starting in the 70s. His hypothesis is that the shift from high fat to high sugar diets and excessive use of high fructose corn syrup are likely one of the primary causes for the obesity rates we see now in the western world. It is quite insightful and full of data. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
jpatokal 9y ago
It's not that straightforward. In Thailand, compulsive snacking is a national obsession and you can't throw a rock outside without hitting five food vendors selling delicious food in small portions. Yet most Thais, particularly women, are incredibly skinny by Western standards.
- sageabilly 9y ago
  "delicious food in small portions." Also probably homemade on the spot by someone who really knows how to make it taste amazing. A small portion of something well made, from good ingredients, that tastes amazing will satisfy much more thoroughly than something that's nothing but carbs, sugar, and MSG.
- skolsuper 9y ago
  +1 Also, I've seen discussion of "fat-shaming" elsewhere ITT, and I think it's relevant, but shame isn't the right word. Seems like Asian cultures are frank about discussion of weight (and salary, and other things), but without the taboo of talking about it there isn't the associated shame of being talked about, in my experience.

nickbauman 9y ago

I'd bet if you're an adult and regularly eating processed, ready-to-eat food out of a bag or a box the chances that you're already obese is probably many times more than the overall population.

ohazi 9y ago

If you had to point at something in the fast food category, my money would be on the insanely portioned sugary drinks. Maybe fries too, because people buy combo meals and then scarf everything down without stopping to see whether or not they actually feel full. If you go to a fast food restaurant and get just a burger and water, I don't think it would actually be that bad for you, even if you ate like this more often than you should.

greggman 9y ago
my anecdote: I switched from coke to diet coke and stopped eating the fries. No other changes to lifestyle. Lost 30lbs (210 -> 180)
- thisisit 9y ago
  In how many months ?
  - greggman 9y ago
    Maybe 6-9 months? It's been a while since I started. I've generally stuck to it for 22 years. Twice during those years I've had a period of regular exercise of some form and gotten down another 10 or so lbs, around ~170 but then I stop and it goes back to 180. I'm 5'10"
dagw 9y ago
my money would be on the insanely portioned sugary drinks. When visiting the States I also found that the US tradition of offering free refills on sodas led to me drinking more soda that I otherwise would have.

wallace_f 9y ago

A teacher lost ~60lbs on a McDonalds-only diet.(1) As the article states, the reasons for obesity are "complex," and 'involve blaming society, and everyone else' for individual choices. The most interesting thing about this topic is why does if fit entirely into the "can't blame them category," when there are still so many examples--albeit on a diminishing list--of other personal choices that one may be acceptably villified for--many of which don't even involve environmental destruction and animal rights abuses? Yes culture, wealth, consumer products, job opportunities, and corn subsidies all participate; but perhaps the biggest problem is one of personal responsibility. By contrast, in Japan obesity wins you an automatic trip to counseling(2). 1-https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2D79329158 https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eatin... 2-https://www.bu.edu/themovement/2011/05/29/the-fats-on-fire/ https://www.bu.edu/themovement/2011/05/29/the-fats-on-fire/

greggman 9y ago
I think Japan is a great example of personal responsibility. Food in Japan or at least the major cities is ridiculously easy to come by. Convenience stores every 2-3 minutes open 24 hours with loads of food, snacks, pastries, donuts, ice cream, liquor, beer. Liquor and Beer are as low as $1.20 a can. All the super markets now also carry tons of ready to eat foods and meals (because convenience stores were eating into their market) as well as chips, desserts, liquor, etc... Many more restaurants than anywhere else I've lived are open until morning. And there is fast food of all sorts as well, way more bread/pastries stores than just about anywhere on the planet. And yes, they have tons of greasy salty and sugary foods available. And yet Japanese aren't nearly as obese. That would seem to suggest either genetics or self control. Certain things help like often (not always) portions are smaller but you can always buy 2+
- quwert95 9y ago
  Just expanding on your idea here - Japan also has a million times more vending machines as the US and they're full of Pepsi/Coke products, fruit juices, energy drinks, and even ice cream or beer. At 2am you can get your carb fix across the street from your apartment for a measly 100yen.

will_brown 9y ago

>Is there actually any agreement among scientists that there is a causal relationship between fast food consumption and obesity? Yes and no...part of the problem, much like cigarettes there are many industry paid physicians and scientists happy to create confusion and dispel truth. And just like the cigarette industry who took their carcinogenic products to countries with less regulation, fast food and sugar industries are doing the same. First fast food is high calorie and low in nutrients. Its also high in carbs which tends to trigger insulin production, insulin enlarges cell size in the body including fat cells priming a body for obesity (just add excess calories here). Additionally, fast food is notoriously inflammatory (sugar, grain fed meat, gluten, additives, saturated fat, BPA type toxins, preservatives, fried, etc...) and inflammation is linked to obesity, of course coming full circle you will find scientists paid by the sugar/fast food industries happy to claim its the other way around and that obesity is linked to metabolic inflammation. I will highlight the comment below regarding the teacher on the McD's diet for 6 months who lost ~60lbs is the type of misinformation the food industry thrives off. Just to highlight, the individual lost 56lbs but was still classified as obese, the individual limited himself to 2,000 calories per day (which can easily be exceeded in a single meal) and the individual walked 45 minuted everyday, but there is no information pre-McD diet.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

halotrope 9y ago

In his lecture “sugar the bitter truth” [1] Robert Lustig talks about the obesity epidemic starting in the 70s. His hypothesis is that the shift from high fat to high sugar diets and excessive use of high fructose corn syrup are likely one of the primary causes for the obesity rates we see now in the western world. It is quite insightful and full of data. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

jpatokal 9y ago

It's not that straightforward. In Thailand, compulsive snacking is a national obsession and you can't throw a rock outside without hitting five food vendors selling delicious food in small portions. Yet most Thais, particularly women, are incredibly skinny by Western standards.

sageabilly 9y ago
"delicious food in small portions." Also probably homemade on the spot by someone who really knows how to make it taste amazing. A small portion of something well made, from good ingredients, that tastes amazing will satisfy much more thoroughly than something that's nothing but carbs, sugar, and MSG.
skolsuper 9y ago
+1 Also, I've seen discussion of "fat-shaming" elsewhere ITT, and I think it's relevant, but shame isn't the right word. Seems like Asian cultures are frank about discussion of weight (and salary, and other things), but without the taboo of talking about it there isn't the associated shame of being talked about, in my experience.