6 ms·

I would worry that something breaks after warranty expires and the whole computer can go out of the window. With regular good old desktops you can just replace

by urza 9y ago

I would worry that something breaks after warranty expires and the whole computer can go out of the window. With regular good old desktops you can just replace the broken part. With such special custom made hardware it is sometimes impossible. For example the macbook airs have non standard ssd that is not replaceable, so when the disk dies, whole notebook is done...

lotsofpulp 9y ago
With laptops, such as the Air, based on the great sales figures, consumers are willing to forego being able to repair versus having something compact. It also probably helps apple in the warranty department if their manufacturing quality is so high that people opening it up themselves causes more problems than the product is expected to have by itself. I used to repair my laptop and desktop, but nowadays I'd rather just go to the Apple store and have it swapped out and not waste time for parts. The share of the market that wants repair-ability is probably just not high enough to care about, at least for Apple. Edit: if this is for business or professionals, then I don't understand why they would make something like this either though. I assume their highly paid staff has market data and whatnot, but I share your opinion that it's ridiculous if this is supposed to be for business use.
- stefco_ 9y ago
  My friend in film production tells me that his shop does a ton of editing on iMacs despite the premium on hardware. He is an enthusiast and has built his own editing PC, but he tells me the iMacs are rock-solid and never give them any trouble, despite the specs being worse on paper than some other editing machines. I think that the consistency, quality, and software integration are worth a lot to businesses, especially mid-size businesses that don't have an entire IT department to fix issues that come up, and in these contexts, having a reliable computing monoculture means you can just focus on business. I won't be surprised if iMac Pros do make it into plenty of business contexts.
  - aykutcan 9y ago
    so Editing PC gave him trouble ? Why i am the only one around using PC with zero problems and much much better than any apple product?
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      I'm going to be honest: I never had any PC problems really until Windows 10 came around. Occasionally windows update would get bonked or I'd hose the machine myself but it was pretty reliable. That's going back to Windows NT 3.51 for me. Since Windows 10, screw it. QA is gone. So many little papercuts it's not worth it any more. I use my two Macs and rarely touch the PC, an HP z620 which has just been a total pile of crap to me really. Nothing but problem after problem.
      - dman 9y ago
        Have you considered the possibility that you just had a bad machine?
        cjsuk 9y ago
        I have clearly had three bad machines. I've got an X201 and a T440 as well. The Z620 was especially bad, but the X201 and T440 are perfect hardware-wise and existed before the whole windows 10 thing. The software is the main problem.
        terminalcommand 9y ago
        I'm using an X201 with Win 10 right now. The driver support was significantly better on Linux. With TLP and a lightweight window manager like i3, the battery consumption was miles better than windows. Without Wifi I was able to reduce the consumption to 8-9 W an hour, with wifi it was around 11-12W. When I first switched back to windows, I was shocked to see the battery consumption being around 22 W. Lenovo's own battery management driver helped a lot. If I'm using firefox nightly I can reduce it to 16-18W an hour. From my observation it seems to me that windows draws a lot of power when the system under low load, even on battery saver mode. With linux you can tune the battery consumption far better. Performance-wise, due to Windows background services I experience occasional lags. The anti-malware engine, indexes etc. consume a lot of CPU cycles. The real bottleneck on X201 is the CPU. Due to heavy CPU usage, my laptop sometimes overheats and closes itself. I have only experienced this on Chakra Linux with an unstable version of KDE. Other linux distros and FreeBSD were absolutely fine. Wifi connectivity was also very problematic. First couple of weeks wifi adapter stopped working everytime after I woke the laptop from sleep. Now I don't have much to complain besides lags and the mediocre power consumption. Firefox nightly has helped immensely for a fluid browsing experience. The bottomline is, for x201, if you want stability and performance but a more conservative experience go for linux. If you want a hassle-free cohesive but slower system go for Windows. PS: Bugs on Windows might stem from X201 being an old machine.
- urza 9y ago
  Yes I can understand it with compactness of mabook aris (I also have one), but with such expensive desktop, I would want to keep the possibility to repair and upgrade. When motherboard, display or any non standard soldered component dies, you have to replace the whole thing probably..
  - njarboe 9y ago
    Or abandoning such a nice big, hi-res screen. I sort of like the screen and computer separate. Even the highest end smart tv's are starting to diverge into the screen, that lasts a decade or more, and the controller computer that can be replaced.
coldtea 9y ago
>For example the macbook airs have non standard ssd that is not replaceable, so when the disk dies, whole notebook is done... Or you can go and get either a warranty extension (before it runs out) or an aftermarket SSD, like millions (including me) have done.
- urza 9y ago
  I am talking about models that have ssd as chips soldered to the motherboard. You cant buy aftermarket replacement for that.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    True, was reffering to the models with merely "non standard" SSDs that vendors like OWC sell. There are warranty extensions to 3 years though.
- stefco_ 9y ago
  But you can't do that with the latest MacBooks, which have their SSDs soldered directly onto the logic boards. And you can't do that with memory for any Apple notebook from the last several years for the same reason. My 7 year old MacBook Pro is running okay thanks to some memory and storage upgrades. I would not be able to get the same life extension with one of the new models, which makes me hesitate to get a new Mac.
  - aNoob7000 9y ago
    To be fair, most new laptops like the Surface Pro or Dell's XPS 13 make it pretty darn hard to upgrade the memory or hard drive.
    - JohnTHaller 9y ago
      XPS laptops use standard nvme m.2 SSDs. Source: have one that I've opened up
    - huhtenberg 9y ago
pattle 9y ago
This also means that iMac and Macbooks depreciate quite heavily in price after the warranty expires. I'm thinking of selling my Macbook Pro while I can get a decent price for it as I've now had it around 3 years. I'm better of investing that money in new parts for my PC.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  MacBooks are known to have the best resell prices in the industry. iMacs, at least the 5k, is user serviceable for RAM upgrades.
  - mceachen 9y ago
    I don't consider these steps and the required tools approachable by most iMac users: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+4K+Display+2017+Teardown/92170 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+...
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      The 27" has a door: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 The 21.5" is only 4K, I probably should have been more explicit about that.
csomar 9y ago
Do you mean that even Apple can't repair it? I had problems with my Macbook Pro and they specifically ordered an item from Apple and shipped it to repair the machine.
- bluedino 9y ago
  Something like the iMac, if the video card goes out on it (common problem) the only replacement part is from Apple and costs $600 so you might as well just throw the whole thing out (or sell it for parts)
  - csomar 9y ago
    600-800 is probably where I draw the line but if your configuration costs $4,000 then you might think it is worth it. Also Apple offered to "buy the damaged part" in my case (though I'll need to ship/reship) so if you are US based it might be cheaper.

by urza 9y ago

lotsofpulp 9y ago

With laptops, such as the Air, based on the great sales figures, consumers are willing to forego being able to repair versus having something compact. It also probably helps apple in the warranty department if their manufacturing quality is so high that people opening it up themselves causes more problems than the product is expected to have by itself. I used to repair my laptop and desktop, but nowadays I'd rather just go to the Apple store and have it swapped out and not waste time for parts. The share of the market that wants repair-ability is probably just not high enough to care about, at least for Apple. Edit: if this is for business or professionals, then I don't understand why they would make something like this either though. I assume their highly paid staff has market data and whatnot, but I share your opinion that it's ridiculous if this is supposed to be for business use.

stefco_ 9y ago
My friend in film production tells me that his shop does a ton of editing on iMacs despite the premium on hardware. He is an enthusiast and has built his own editing PC, but he tells me the iMacs are rock-solid and never give them any trouble, despite the specs being worse on paper than some other editing machines. I think that the consistency, quality, and software integration are worth a lot to businesses, especially mid-size businesses that don't have an entire IT department to fix issues that come up, and in these contexts, having a reliable computing monoculture means you can just focus on business. I won't be surprised if iMac Pros do make it into plenty of business contexts.
- aykutcan 9y ago
  so Editing PC gave him trouble ? Why i am the only one around using PC with zero problems and much much better than any apple product?
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    I'm going to be honest: I never had any PC problems really until Windows 10 came around. Occasionally windows update would get bonked or I'd hose the machine myself but it was pretty reliable. That's going back to Windows NT 3.51 for me. Since Windows 10, screw it. QA is gone. So many little papercuts it's not worth it any more. I use my two Macs and rarely touch the PC, an HP z620 which has just been a total pile of crap to me really. Nothing but problem after problem.
    - dman 9y ago
      Have you considered the possibility that you just had a bad machine?
      - cjsuk 9y ago
        I have clearly had three bad machines. I've got an X201 and a T440 as well. The Z620 was especially bad, but the X201 and T440 are perfect hardware-wise and existed before the whole windows 10 thing. The software is the main problem.
        terminalcommand 9y ago
        I'm using an X201 with Win 10 right now. The driver support was significantly better on Linux. With TLP and a lightweight window manager like i3, the battery consumption was miles better than windows. Without Wifi I was able to reduce the consumption to 8-9 W an hour, with wifi it was around 11-12W. When I first switched back to windows, I was shocked to see the battery consumption being around 22 W. Lenovo's own battery management driver helped a lot. If I'm using firefox nightly I can reduce it to 16-18W an hour. From my observation it seems to me that windows draws a lot of power when the system under low load, even on battery saver mode. With linux you can tune the battery consumption far better. Performance-wise, due to Windows background services I experience occasional lags. The anti-malware engine, indexes etc. consume a lot of CPU cycles. The real bottleneck on X201 is the CPU. Due to heavy CPU usage, my laptop sometimes overheats and closes itself. I have only experienced this on Chakra Linux with an unstable version of KDE. Other linux distros and FreeBSD were absolutely fine. Wifi connectivity was also very problematic. First couple of weeks wifi adapter stopped working everytime after I woke the laptop from sleep. Now I don't have much to complain besides lags and the mediocre power consumption. Firefox nightly has helped immensely for a fluid browsing experience. The bottomline is, for x201, if you want stability and performance but a more conservative experience go for linux. If you want a hassle-free cohesive but slower system go for Windows. PS: Bugs on Windows might stem from X201 being an old machine.
urza 9y ago
Yes I can understand it with compactness of mabook aris (I also have one), but with such expensive desktop, I would want to keep the possibility to repair and upgrade. When motherboard, display or any non standard soldered component dies, you have to replace the whole thing probably..
- njarboe 9y ago
  Or abandoning such a nice big, hi-res screen. I sort of like the screen and computer separate. Even the highest end smart tv's are starting to diverge into the screen, that lasts a decade or more, and the controller computer that can be replaced.

coldtea 9y ago

>For example the macbook airs have non standard ssd that is not replaceable, so when the disk dies, whole notebook is done... Or you can go and get either a warranty extension (before it runs out) or an aftermarket SSD, like millions (including me) have done.

urza 9y ago
I am talking about models that have ssd as chips soldered to the motherboard. You cant buy aftermarket replacement for that.
- coldtea 9y ago
  True, was reffering to the models with merely "non standard" SSDs that vendors like OWC sell. There are warranty extensions to 3 years though.
stefco_ 9y ago
But you can't do that with the latest MacBooks, which have their SSDs soldered directly onto the logic boards. And you can't do that with memory for any Apple notebook from the last several years for the same reason. My 7 year old MacBook Pro is running okay thanks to some memory and storage upgrades. I would not be able to get the same life extension with one of the new models, which makes me hesitate to get a new Mac.
- aNoob7000 9y ago
  To be fair, most new laptops like the Surface Pro or Dell's XPS 13 make it pretty darn hard to upgrade the memory or hard drive.
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    XPS laptops use standard nvme m.2 SSDs. Source: have one that I've opened up
  - huhtenberg 9y ago

pattle 9y ago

This also means that iMac and Macbooks depreciate quite heavily in price after the warranty expires. I'm thinking of selling my Macbook Pro while I can get a decent price for it as I've now had it around 3 years. I'm better of investing that money in new parts for my PC.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
MacBooks are known to have the best resell prices in the industry. iMacs, at least the 5k, is user serviceable for RAM upgrades.
- mceachen 9y ago
  I don't consider these steps and the required tools approachable by most iMac users: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+4K+Display+2017+Teardown/92170 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+...
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    The 27" has a door: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 The 21.5" is only 4K, I probably should have been more explicit about that.

csomar 9y ago

Do you mean that even Apple can't repair it? I had problems with my Macbook Pro and they specifically ordered an item from Apple and shipped it to repair the machine.

bluedino 9y ago
Something like the iMac, if the video card goes out on it (common problem) the only replacement part is from Apple and costs $600 so you might as well just throw the whole thing out (or sell it for parts)
- csomar 9y ago
  600-800 is probably where I draw the line but if your configuration costs $4,000 then you might think it is worth it. Also Apple offered to "buy the damaged part" in my case (though I'll need to ship/reship) so if you are US based it might be cheaper.