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Going off things like this [1], I'm going to say yes. (See location tag) [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://twitter.com/AntifaBos

by croon 9y ago

Going off things like this [1], I'm going to say yes. (See location tag) [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston/status/912763777698889728 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...

serf 9y ago
if that's the evidence that Russia instigated black activism in the U.S. , where's the evidence that the U.S. government didn't plant a falsely geo-tagged photo and then bring attention to it in every news outlet that it can influence in order to instigate U.S. hatred towards Russia? I don't care either way, but I don't really think that either possibility is far from probable -- and the barrier to entry for this kind of trickery is just obscenely low as far as nation-state bickering goes.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  I personally feel that you raise a good question. I believe that the US is much closer to civil war than most realize, and the government is trying to prevent it by lowering fuel and grain prices, spurring economic growth without hurting the lower class anymore, and creating a common enemy(Russia). I know the only ones claiming Russian involvement is the US government and media. However, I don't think it's a bad thing. Despite our issues, civil war would be a terrible, horrid occurrence.
  - nkozyra 9y ago
    > I know the only ones claiming Russian involvement is the US government and media. That isn't really true, though. You could argue that our allies were just doing our bidding, but other countries definitely saw this meddling both in the 2016 POTUS election and other elections.[1] I also think statements like "US is much closer to civil war than most realize" needs some quantification or support. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/07/russia-us-election-hacking-uk-intelligence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/07/russia-us-el...
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      > I also think statements like "US is much closer to civil war than most realize" needs some quantification or support That's why I said "I believe," I don't have any evidence. I just find it incredibly interesting how at the same time we have a growing number of protests and most are experiencing a declining quality of life, food and gas prices are incredibly low. To me it seems like the government is trying to stabilize the population.
  - Overtonwindow 9y ago
    I too believe we are closer to civil war than ever before. A powder keg is building.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  My question is a little different: whose to say they weren't just on a VPN on Twitter instead? It's not entirely impossible.
  - fjert 9y ago
    This is something I thought about too. Especially considering communities like /r/The_Donald and 4Chan's /pol/ have been observed creating parody Twitter profiles and the like with Russia based geo-tags. I am nearly positive the image linked by OP is an example of just that. This is not to say that Russia did not purchase Facebook ads, just that a geo-tag is very weak evidence of anything and using images like the above to make accusations makes for a pretty weak argument.
  - imron 9y ago
    You can manually set your twitter location to whatever you want for any tweet, and the account mentioned above was a parody/troll account. The idea that this is proof of Russian meddling in the election is laughable.
    - giancarlostoro 9y ago
      Interesting I had not considered that either. Thanks for the information. After years of being a programmer I'm convinced that digital evidence is really hard to take seriously considering the inability of most of it being tamper proof.
      - imron 9y ago
        Just wait until technology like this [0] becomes more common place, which I guess will be either the next US election, or the one after that. It's going to be a crazy world. 0: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/adobe-voco-photoshop-for-audio-speech-editing/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/adobe...
        giancarlostoro 9y ago
- emmelaich 9y ago
  While you're there, why not speculate that Russia spreads rumours that US government does black flagging? Anyway, no-one really cares about Russia. Russia cares about the USA in the same way someone is envious about their rich successful cousin.
  - api 9y ago
    Good point. So let's talk motive. EVs and solar are on the verge of a tipping point that will destroy petroleum at least as the world's most important resource. Sub-10k EVs are coming since EVs are actually a lot simpler to build than ICE cars. Russia's economy is over 50% petroleum based last statistic I read. John McCain famously called them a "gas can with a gun strapped to it." Other Petro states will fare pretty bad too. Saudi Arabia has IPOd Aramco to cash out and now via SoftBank are indirectly buying huge stakes in tons of things. This is smart, but they also have in many ways fewer problems than Russia. Russia has a demographic crisis that is compounded by young people and high skill people leaving. If oil collapses as a major revenue source they are completely hosed. They will suffer a repeat of the economic crash that came with the collapse of the USSR. Add to that the "we were once a great empire" bitterness that likely infests the ranks and it makes sense for them to try to disrupt the world order as much as possible. They don't have a lot to lose. Edit: there is also an ideological dimension. Putin is an admirer of among others Julius Evola and is more or less a fellow traveler with the US and EU neo-fascist movements.
    - Nomentatus 9y ago
      I don't understand the downvotes you're getting - the economic circumstances you cite are sound, and historically desperate and remarkable things can indeed happen as Empires and Nations come to the end of their economic rope. As for the neo-Christian-fascism it's well discussed elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin The Saudi's are staring at an even greater economic chasm with poor returns from their non-oil investments.
  - xyrnoble 9y ago
    Maybe they envy us; Maybe they merely envy themselves in a world without us antagonizing them. Dismissing the latter as if it were the former is disingenuous douchebaggery. "I'm not an asshole; They're just jealous" As long as we have military bases all over the world I don't see how we can complain about other countries trying to influence our elections. I can't believe it's even a news story... It's just so obviously happening.
- bsder 9y ago
  > where's the evidence that the U.S. government didn't plant a falsely geo-tagged photo It doesn't matter what entity instigated it. This is a problem irrespective of source. The questions are: how pervasive is this and how do we deal with it?
emmelaich 9y ago
Are you sure that's not a parody account?
- pls2halp 9y ago
  I'm fairly certain the facebook presence of the same account is parody, so presumably this one is too.

by croon 9y ago

serf 9y ago

if that's the evidence that Russia instigated black activism in the U.S. , where's the evidence that the U.S. government didn't plant a falsely geo-tagged photo and then bring attention to it in every news outlet that it can influence in order to instigate U.S. hatred towards Russia? I don't care either way, but I don't really think that either possibility is far from probable -- and the barrier to entry for this kind of trickery is just obscenely low as far as nation-state bickering goes.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
I personally feel that you raise a good question. I believe that the US is much closer to civil war than most realize, and the government is trying to prevent it by lowering fuel and grain prices, spurring economic growth without hurting the lower class anymore, and creating a common enemy(Russia). I know the only ones claiming Russian involvement is the US government and media. However, I don't think it's a bad thing. Despite our issues, civil war would be a terrible, horrid occurrence.
- nkozyra 9y ago
  > I know the only ones claiming Russian involvement is the US government and media. That isn't really true, though. You could argue that our allies were just doing our bidding, but other countries definitely saw this meddling both in the 2016 POTUS election and other elections.[1] I also think statements like "US is much closer to civil war than most realize" needs some quantification or support. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/07/russia-us-election-hacking-uk-intelligence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/07/russia-us-el...
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    > I also think statements like "US is much closer to civil war than most realize" needs some quantification or support That's why I said "I believe," I don't have any evidence. I just find it incredibly interesting how at the same time we have a growing number of protests and most are experiencing a declining quality of life, food and gas prices are incredibly low. To me it seems like the government is trying to stabilize the population.
- Overtonwindow 9y ago
  I too believe we are closer to civil war than ever before. A powder keg is building.
giancarlostoro 9y ago
My question is a little different: whose to say they weren't just on a VPN on Twitter instead? It's not entirely impossible.
- fjert 9y ago
  This is something I thought about too. Especially considering communities like /r/The_Donald and 4Chan's /pol/ have been observed creating parody Twitter profiles and the like with Russia based geo-tags. I am nearly positive the image linked by OP is an example of just that. This is not to say that Russia did not purchase Facebook ads, just that a geo-tag is very weak evidence of anything and using images like the above to make accusations makes for a pretty weak argument.
- imron 9y ago
  You can manually set your twitter location to whatever you want for any tweet, and the account mentioned above was a parody/troll account. The idea that this is proof of Russian meddling in the election is laughable.
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    Interesting I had not considered that either. Thanks for the information. After years of being a programmer I'm convinced that digital evidence is really hard to take seriously considering the inability of most of it being tamper proof.
    - imron 9y ago
      Just wait until technology like this [0] becomes more common place, which I guess will be either the next US election, or the one after that. It's going to be a crazy world. 0: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/adobe-voco-photoshop-for-audio-speech-editing/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/adobe...
      - giancarlostoro 9y ago
emmelaich 9y ago
While you're there, why not speculate that Russia spreads rumours that US government does black flagging? Anyway, no-one really cares about Russia. Russia cares about the USA in the same way someone is envious about their rich successful cousin.
- api 9y ago
  Good point. So let's talk motive. EVs and solar are on the verge of a tipping point that will destroy petroleum at least as the world's most important resource. Sub-10k EVs are coming since EVs are actually a lot simpler to build than ICE cars. Russia's economy is over 50% petroleum based last statistic I read. John McCain famously called them a "gas can with a gun strapped to it." Other Petro states will fare pretty bad too. Saudi Arabia has IPOd Aramco to cash out and now via SoftBank are indirectly buying huge stakes in tons of things. This is smart, but they also have in many ways fewer problems than Russia. Russia has a demographic crisis that is compounded by young people and high skill people leaving. If oil collapses as a major revenue source they are completely hosed. They will suffer a repeat of the economic crash that came with the collapse of the USSR. Add to that the "we were once a great empire" bitterness that likely infests the ranks and it makes sense for them to try to disrupt the world order as much as possible. They don't have a lot to lose. Edit: there is also an ideological dimension. Putin is an admirer of among others Julius Evola and is more or less a fellow traveler with the US and EU neo-fascist movements.
  - Nomentatus 9y ago
    I don't understand the downvotes you're getting - the economic circumstances you cite are sound, and historically desperate and remarkable things can indeed happen as Empires and Nations come to the end of their economic rope. As for the neo-Christian-fascism it's well discussed elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin The Saudi's are staring at an even greater economic chasm with poor returns from their non-oil investments.
- xyrnoble 9y ago
  Maybe they envy us; Maybe they merely envy themselves in a world without us antagonizing them. Dismissing the latter as if it were the former is disingenuous douchebaggery. "I'm not an asshole; They're just jealous" As long as we have military bases all over the world I don't see how we can complain about other countries trying to influence our elections. I can't believe it's even a news story... It's just so obviously happening.
bsder 9y ago
> where's the evidence that the U.S. government didn't plant a falsely geo-tagged photo It doesn't matter what entity instigated it. This is a problem irrespective of source. The questions are: how pervasive is this and how do we deal with it?

emmelaich 9y ago

Are you sure that's not a parody account?

pls2halp 9y ago
I'm fairly certain the facebook presence of the same account is parody, so presumably this one is too.