4 ms·

China stands to be completely screwed over by another NK-USA war, and I find it hard to believe that they haven't even considered the possibility of this happen

China stands to be completely screwed over by another NK-USA war, and I find it hard to believe that they haven't even considered the possibility of this happening. Rushing to the chess table to negotiate a draw after the game's already reached the endgame appears remarkably foolhardy for such a forward-planning nation.

mschuster91 9y ago
> and I find it hard to believe that they haven't even considered the possibility of this happening. The Chinese fell for the same trap many non-ultra-right-wing Trump supporters did: they believed that Trump would be made presidential by the office. Even many on the left side would not have thought Trumps tweets in regard to NK possible in any way.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  This isn't a great site to engage in mindless partisan politics.
  - roywiggins 9y ago
    Mindless? The guy in the white house is publicly trashing his own Secretary of State for talking to the DPRK and threatening to "do what needs to be done." This is less a partisan issue and more a "please don't start a nuclear land war in Asia" issue.
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      Yes, mindless. Just like your post. And my post for that matter, but I am not the one making any claims besides that HN is not the place for mindless political assertions.
      - roywiggins 9y ago
        If the President and his own Secretary of State are disagreeing on this in public, how can this be a partisan issue?
        oh_sigh 9y ago
        Because of the spin you put on it. Presumably, they are playing a good cop bad cop routine with negotiations. If Trump wanted to express disapproval to Tillerson, he could pick up the phone and call him in private and guide Tillersons exact actions, if that is what he wanted
      - AlexCoventry 9y ago
        Not sure what you mean by mindless. Seems like there's been a well- reasoned justification for most of what's been said.
        oh_sigh 9y ago
        No, there is no understanding of how Trump operates by his haters. Which may be part of the reason they are haters in the first place.
- busyant 9y ago
  I call this road-rage diplomacy. Both sides can give each other the finger in crowded traffic. But eventually somebody just might pull out a gun. Or crash (errant missile). As much as I can appreciate the diplomatic brinkmanship of sending mixed messages, I don't trust either side, so I find it disconcerting.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  > The Chinese fell for the same trap many non-ultra-right-wing Trump supporters did: they believed that Trump would be made presidential by the office. Do you know of these people you are speaking for? Trump seems to be acting exactly the way he was expected to by everybody.
  - bryanlarsen 9y ago
    Trump's behavior is surprising no one, true. But that's as much because the only prediction was that he'd be unpredictable, as because he's behaving like he telegraphed before the election Read articles from before the inauguration, you'll see all sorts of wild predictions on how he would act. Example: http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/01/trump-and-the-us-economy-q-what-do-you-think-will-be-the-single-most-important-outcome-of-the-trump-presidency-for-th.html http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/01/trump-and-the-us-econ...
- zaroth 9y ago
  Ballistic missiles fly over Japan, successful H-bomb underground tests, miniaturization technology around the corner, Hollywood-style productions of the US burning, and threats of atmospheric tests. But, no need to push on that whole "mutually assured destruction" defense, right? We wouldn't want to upset Rocket Man with any kind of personal insult, that's just crazy. Strategic patience was really working out so well, but if that doesn't work somehow we could always try appeasement? The whole point of MAD is that your opponent knows with complete certainty that their world is over if they cross a line. Personally I think the line needs to be drawn before the west coast of the US actually gets nuked. It's important that Trump seem just fucking crazy enough to actually order the obliteration of NK to have the best chance that it never actually comes to that. That Trump has convinced the MSM (and you) that he would gladly push the button if it came to it is exactly the kind of chirade we need right now.
  - adventured 9y ago
    > It's important that Trump seem just fucking crazy enough to actually order the obliteration of NK to have the best chance that it never actually comes to that. It's the Reagan-Soviet premise, which the MSM and the left universally fell for during that era as well. There was wide-spread fear among the left that Reagan was going to get everyone killed, that he was a quasi mad-man (the culture of the 1980s is overflowing with references to that by artists on the left for example). It's laughable in hindsight.
  - openasocket 9y ago
    You want to come off as determined, not insane. You want to make it clear to people you will retaliate if attacked, but you want to make it just as clear that you will not launch a preemptive strike. Because if the enemy thinks you are crazy enough to start a nuclear exchange, they may decide to launch a preemptive strike themselves, so at least the initiative is on their side. If you read about the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, you won't find anything about "acting crazy" > We wouldn't want to upset Rocket Man with any kind of personal insult, that's just crazy. Strategic patience was really working out so well, but if that doesn't work somehow we could always try appeasement? There are a whole world of options between appeasement and personal insults. And I really don't see what personal insults are supposed to do. Like, are you expecting Kim Jong Un to say "sorry, we'll stop our nuclear program, just please don't call me 'Little Rocket Man' anymore"?

mschuster91 9y ago

> and I find it hard to believe that they haven't even considered the possibility of this happening. The Chinese fell for the same trap many non-ultra-right-wing Trump supporters did: they believed that Trump would be made presidential by the office. Even many on the left side would not have thought Trumps tweets in regard to NK possible in any way.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
oh_sigh 9y ago
This isn't a great site to engage in mindless partisan politics.
- roywiggins 9y ago
  Mindless? The guy in the white house is publicly trashing his own Secretary of State for talking to the DPRK and threatening to "do what needs to be done." This is less a partisan issue and more a "please don't start a nuclear land war in Asia" issue.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Yes, mindless. Just like your post. And my post for that matter, but I am not the one making any claims besides that HN is not the place for mindless political assertions.
    - roywiggins 9y ago
      If the President and his own Secretary of State are disagreeing on this in public, how can this be a partisan issue?
      - oh_sigh 9y ago
        Because of the spin you put on it. Presumably, they are playing a good cop bad cop routine with negotiations. If Trump wanted to express disapproval to Tillerson, he could pick up the phone and call him in private and guide Tillersons exact actions, if that is what he wanted
    - AlexCoventry 9y ago
      Not sure what you mean by mindless. Seems like there's been a well- reasoned justification for most of what's been said.
      - oh_sigh 9y ago
        No, there is no understanding of how Trump operates by his haters. Which may be part of the reason they are haters in the first place.
busyant 9y ago
I call this road-rage diplomacy. Both sides can give each other the finger in crowded traffic. But eventually somebody just might pull out a gun. Or crash (errant missile). As much as I can appreciate the diplomatic brinkmanship of sending mixed messages, I don't trust either side, so I find it disconcerting.
matt_wulfeck 9y ago
> The Chinese fell for the same trap many non-ultra-right-wing Trump supporters did: they believed that Trump would be made presidential by the office. Do you know of these people you are speaking for? Trump seems to be acting exactly the way he was expected to by everybody.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  Trump's behavior is surprising no one, true. But that's as much because the only prediction was that he'd be unpredictable, as because he's behaving like he telegraphed before the election Read articles from before the inauguration, you'll see all sorts of wild predictions on how he would act. Example: http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/01/trump-and-the-us-economy-q-what-do-you-think-will-be-the-single-most-important-outcome-of-the-trump-presidency-for-th.html http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/01/trump-and-the-us-econ...
zaroth 9y ago
Ballistic missiles fly over Japan, successful H-bomb underground tests, miniaturization technology around the corner, Hollywood-style productions of the US burning, and threats of atmospheric tests. But, no need to push on that whole "mutually assured destruction" defense, right? We wouldn't want to upset Rocket Man with any kind of personal insult, that's just crazy. Strategic patience was really working out so well, but if that doesn't work somehow we could always try appeasement? The whole point of MAD is that your opponent knows with complete certainty that their world is over if they cross a line. Personally I think the line needs to be drawn before the west coast of the US actually gets nuked. It's important that Trump seem just fucking crazy enough to actually order the obliteration of NK to have the best chance that it never actually comes to that. That Trump has convinced the MSM (and you) that he would gladly push the button if it came to it is exactly the kind of chirade we need right now.
- adventured 9y ago
  > It's important that Trump seem just fucking crazy enough to actually order the obliteration of NK to have the best chance that it never actually comes to that. It's the Reagan-Soviet premise, which the MSM and the left universally fell for during that era as well. There was wide-spread fear among the left that Reagan was going to get everyone killed, that he was a quasi mad-man (the culture of the 1980s is overflowing with references to that by artists on the left for example). It's laughable in hindsight.
- openasocket 9y ago
  You want to come off as determined, not insane. You want to make it clear to people you will retaliate if attacked, but you want to make it just as clear that you will not launch a preemptive strike. Because if the enemy thinks you are crazy enough to start a nuclear exchange, they may decide to launch a preemptive strike themselves, so at least the initiative is on their side. If you read about the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, you won't find anything about "acting crazy" > We wouldn't want to upset Rocket Man with any kind of personal insult, that's just crazy. Strategic patience was really working out so well, but if that doesn't work somehow we could always try appeasement? There are a whole world of options between appeasement and personal insults. And I really don't see what personal insults are supposed to do. Like, are you expecting Kim Jong Un to say "sorry, we'll stop our nuclear program, just please don't call me 'Little Rocket Man' anymore"?