7 ms·

Booting Daily Stormer has definitely caused problems in their case, but let's be real here: 1) DS hasn't in fact been kicked off the Internet. 2) There's a huge

by moomin 9y ago

Booting Daily Stormer has definitely caused problems in their case, but let's be real here: 1) DS hasn't in fact been kicked off the Internet. 2) There's a huge difference between being a _possible_ copyright infringer and a _declared_ Nazi. 3) DS hasn't engaged in the kind of identity-cloaking whack-a-mole so beloved of copyright infringers. I'm sure any competent lawyer could add another 20 points off the top of their head. In short, yeah it complicates the case, but the fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat.

cm2187 9y ago
I think the main impact is that I had never heard of that website before cloudlfare took that decision. Massive publicity.
tomp 9y ago
> There's a huge difference between being a _possible_ copyright infringer and a _declared_ Nazi. There is indeed. One is illegal.
- whyever 9y ago
  Possibly infringing, is not illegal, infringing is.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- na85 9y ago
  Correct. Nazism is illegal in some jurisdictions.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
blfr 9y ago
DS has in fact been kicked off the Internet although not by Cloudflare (replaced with BitMitigate[1]) but by registrars/registries. They are currently on their nth domain name and these keep getting yanked. What I wonder about is why they're not using a .us domain. Its operators should be bound by the US first amendment since they derive their monopoly from the USG. Maybe it's an elaborate troll. Especially since they're now on .cat. Either way, the abandonment of free speech on the Internet by the companies which benefited the most from it is very worrisome. [1] https://bitmitigate.com/a-commitment-to-liberty.html https://bitmitigate.com/a-commitment-to-liberty.html
- asddddd 9y ago
  > Maybe it's an elaborate troll. Of course it is. The entire point is provocation. How many people heard of Daily Stormer for the first time as a result of this whole drawn-out incident? Rather more than knew about it in the first place, I'd wager, judging by Google Trends and overall coverage. Look at Stormfront, a more obscure (but probably worse) website: their domain got locked, but they seem to have it back now. Interestingly, it appears to be a registrar that issued a statement denouncing Daily Stormer.
- lj3 9y ago
  This is probably why... "In 2005, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration ruled that registrants of .us domains may not secure private domain name registration via anonymizing proxies, and that their contact information must be made public." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us This is the same reason their .is domain was yanked. https://grapevine.is/news/2017/09/29/dailystormer-likely-losing-its-is-domain-today/ https://grapevine.is/news/2017/09/29/dailystormer-likely-los... This might also be interesting for some people: a full timeline of news and bannings of the daily stormer: https://time.graphics/line/3812 https://time.graphics/line/3812
  - gruez 9y ago
    Why does that matter? It's no secret who runs the site.
    - mrkstu 9y ago
      Founder is trying to avoid being served papers in a lawsuit- if he gives up his actual current residency he makes it easier to get served: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-against-daily-stormer-is-stuck-founder-cant-be-served-papers/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-against-...
      - blfr 9y ago
        Weev (Stormer's CTO, I guess) claims that SPLC is trying not to serve Anglin once he retained Marc Randazza to avoid having to bring a lawsuit they're likely to lose. http://weev.net/splc-i-will-personally-serve-andrew-anglin-for-you/ http://weev.net/splc-i-will-personally-serve-andrew-anglin-f...
SeoxyS 9y ago
The sad part is that one is illegal and one isn't. It's a bigger problem for Cloudflare to act as the moral police by kicking off Nazis without them doing anything illegal. Copyright infringement is a more clear cut case. If there's a court order it makes sense to take the site off, and otherwise a blanket refusal.
imron 9y ago
> 1) DS hasn't in fact been kicked off the Internet It has however been kicked off Cloudfare and that's what the plaintiff wants to happen in their case also.
21 9y ago
Hmm, what about _declared_ terrorists and _actual_ killers which post videos of them throwing gays off the top of buildings? Cloudflare was providing service to those people.

by moomin 9y ago

cm2187 9y ago

I think the main impact is that I had never heard of that website before cloudlfare took that decision. Massive publicity.

tomp 9y ago

> There's a huge difference between being a _possible_ copyright infringer and a _declared_ Nazi. There is indeed. One is illegal.

whyever 9y ago
Possibly infringing, is not illegal, infringing is.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
na85 9y ago
Correct. Nazism is illegal in some jurisdictions.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

blfr 9y ago

DS has in fact been kicked off the Internet although not by Cloudflare (replaced with BitMitigate[1]) but by registrars/registries. They are currently on their nth domain name and these keep getting yanked. What I wonder about is why they're not using a .us domain. Its operators should be bound by the US first amendment since they derive their monopoly from the USG. Maybe it's an elaborate troll. Especially since they're now on .cat. Either way, the abandonment of free speech on the Internet by the companies which benefited the most from it is very worrisome. [1] https://bitmitigate.com/a-commitment-to-liberty.html https://bitmitigate.com/a-commitment-to-liberty.html

asddddd 9y ago
> Maybe it's an elaborate troll. Of course it is. The entire point is provocation. How many people heard of Daily Stormer for the first time as a result of this whole drawn-out incident? Rather more than knew about it in the first place, I'd wager, judging by Google Trends and overall coverage. Look at Stormfront, a more obscure (but probably worse) website: their domain got locked, but they seem to have it back now. Interestingly, it appears to be a registrar that issued a statement denouncing Daily Stormer.
lj3 9y ago
This is probably why... "In 2005, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration ruled that registrants of .us domains may not secure private domain name registration via anonymizing proxies, and that their contact information must be made public." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.us This is the same reason their .is domain was yanked. https://grapevine.is/news/2017/09/29/dailystormer-likely-losing-its-is-domain-today/ https://grapevine.is/news/2017/09/29/dailystormer-likely-los... This might also be interesting for some people: a full timeline of news and bannings of the daily stormer: https://time.graphics/line/3812 https://time.graphics/line/3812
- gruez 9y ago
  Why does that matter? It's no secret who runs the site.
  - mrkstu 9y ago
    Founder is trying to avoid being served papers in a lawsuit- if he gives up his actual current residency he makes it easier to get served: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-against-daily-stormer-is-stuck-founder-cant-be-served-papers/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-against-...
    - blfr 9y ago
      Weev (Stormer's CTO, I guess) claims that SPLC is trying not to serve Anglin once he retained Marc Randazza to avoid having to bring a lawsuit they're likely to lose. http://weev.net/splc-i-will-personally-serve-andrew-anglin-for-you/ http://weev.net/splc-i-will-personally-serve-andrew-anglin-f...

SeoxyS 9y ago

The sad part is that one is illegal and one isn't. It's a bigger problem for Cloudflare to act as the moral police by kicking off Nazis without them doing anything illegal. Copyright infringement is a more clear cut case. If there's a court order it makes sense to take the site off, and otherwise a blanket refusal.

imron 9y ago

> 1) DS hasn't in fact been kicked off the Internet It has however been kicked off Cloudfare and that's what the plaintiff wants to happen in their case also.

21 9y ago

Hmm, what about _declared_ terrorists and _actual_ killers which post videos of them throwing gays off the top of buildings? Cloudflare was providing service to those people.