4 ms·
You really should watch before judging. On the Gulf of Tonkin, this is how Burns describes the first incident involving the Maddox: "The commander of a North V
by jameshart 9y ago
You really should watch before judging. On the Gulf of Tonkin, this is how Burns describes the first incident involving the Maddox:
"The commander of a North Vietnamese torpedo-boat squadron moved to attack the Maddox. The Americans opened fire and missed. North Vietnamese torpedoes also missed. But carrier-based U.S. planes damaged two of the North Vietnamese boats and left a third dead in the water."
That pretty clearly states that the Maddox fired first - it doesn't even describe it as a 'warning shot', but rather a 'miss'. He also says that "Johnson knew the attack had been provoked by the South Vietnamese raids on North Vietnam's islands".
Then on the second attack, he says
"No second attack ever happened, but at the time, anxious American sonar operators aboard the Maddox and Turner Joy
convinced themselves one had. The attack was probable but not certain, Johnson was told, and since it had probably occurred, the president decided it should not go unanswered."
This is interspersed with tape of Johnson and McNamara discussing how to react to a second attack, and discussion about how the North Vietnamese command had never authorized any attack on the Maddox.
What story of the Gulf of Tonkin were you hoping he would tell?
- Synaesthesia 9y agoWell I read that it had gotten the Gulf of Tonkin incident wrong in an article here. I stand corrected that sounds like a pretty good description of the incident. I would like to watch it, I’ll get hold of it sometime. https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/19/getting-the-gulf-of-tonkin-wrong-are-ken-burns-and-lynn-novick-telling-stories-about-the-central-events-used-to-legitimize-the-us-attack-against-vietnam/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/19/getting-the-gulf-of-...
- knz 9y agohttp://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-december-1965-wayhiw/ http://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-decembe... - Tonkin coverage starts around 18 minutes in, after considerable context being provided.
- lobster_johnson 9y agoThe author of that article can't possible have seen the episode in question, or has possibly seen only fragments of it — or he misinterpreted it — because his criticisms are completely false.
- Synaesthesia 9y agoYeah that’s why I say I stand corrected on that issue and I’ll watch it first, then criticize it.
- knz 9y agoRe Tonkin, for those who are curious, the coverage of it starts at around 18:30 - http://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-december-1965-wayhiw/ http://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-decembe... It first mentions that Johnson wanted to escalate so had a congressional resolution drafted for when the time was right, then goes into how the whole incident was started by South Vietnamese boats attacking North Vietnamese islands (at the direction of the US), and then mentions that the events that followed were "one of the most controversial and consequential events in US history". Considering this the third episode of the series and that fact that the first ~20 minutes are spent explaining how Johnson was looking for a reason to escalate in the context of the election, I really don't understand how anyone can portray this as Burns trying to whitewash the incident!
- matwood 9y ago> It first mentions that Johnson wanted to escalate so had a congressional resolution drafted for when the time was right, FYI, the documentary mentions that the resolution was already drafted before the second incident.