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Currently I have to pay the government if I work (taxes). If I don't pay, I go to jail. So my only other choice is not work and go on "rural agrarian existence,

by p1esk 9y ago

Currently I have to pay the government if I work (taxes). If I don't pay, I go to jail. So my only other choice is not work and go on "rural agrarian existence, or die". So, let's see, work and pay the man, or don't work and the man pays you, hmmm...

adventured 9y ago
One is total dependency in which you can't exist without the government giving you an income. The other is the government being dependent on you and taking part of your income as their revenue source. In the first case, you're the dependent; in the second case, the government is the dependent. Further, keeping with your example, it's not: don't work and the man pays you. It's: don't work and become entirely owned by and dependent on the man (who is the source of everything you have).
- p1esk 9y ago
  You will be no more "owned by and dependent on" the government than you are on whoever pays you salary right now.
  - sjruckle 9y ago
    I'd rather be dependent on someone I can talk to, and whose personal wealth is a function of my ability to produce than the State who I have basically no influence over. Both ultimately have their own interests at heart, but the first situation is more likely to turn out better for me if I do good work.
    - louithethrid 9y ago
      Yeah, but that guy rather wants you replaced with a robot.
    - p1esk 9y ago
      Sooner or later your "good work" will be automated. The choice will be not "work or don't work", but "govern or be governed". So, pretty much same as now, only you will have more freedom if you're OK with being governed.
      - olleromam91 9y ago
        Or less freedom. Just depends on how you look at it.
        p1esk 9y ago
        How do you think our freedom will be limited (compared to now)?
- gnaritas 9y ago
  You're forgetting something, you can still choose to work and collect the basic income; that's rather the point. BI does not make you dependent on government, it simply allows you the option, which by the way gives you more control in your life as it allows you a safety net thus allowing you to take more chances in your pursuit of work because you can now turn down bad work. A lot more people would be taking a crack at running their own small businesses with such a safety net in place.

by p1esk 9y ago

adventured 9y ago

One is total dependency in which you can't exist without the government giving you an income. The other is the government being dependent on you and taking part of your income as their revenue source. In the first case, you're the dependent; in the second case, the government is the dependent. Further, keeping with your example, it's not: don't work and the man pays you. It's: don't work and become entirely owned by and dependent on the man (who is the source of everything you have).

p1esk 9y ago
You will be no more "owned by and dependent on" the government than you are on whoever pays you salary right now.
- sjruckle 9y ago
  I'd rather be dependent on someone I can talk to, and whose personal wealth is a function of my ability to produce than the State who I have basically no influence over. Both ultimately have their own interests at heart, but the first situation is more likely to turn out better for me if I do good work.
  - louithethrid 9y ago
    Yeah, but that guy rather wants you replaced with a robot.
  - p1esk 9y ago
    Sooner or later your "good work" will be automated. The choice will be not "work or don't work", but "govern or be governed". So, pretty much same as now, only you will have more freedom if you're OK with being governed.
    - olleromam91 9y ago
      Or less freedom. Just depends on how you look at it.
      - p1esk 9y ago
        How do you think our freedom will be limited (compared to now)?
gnaritas 9y ago
You're forgetting something, you can still choose to work and collect the basic income; that's rather the point. BI does not make you dependent on government, it simply allows you the option, which by the way gives you more control in your life as it allows you a safety net thus allowing you to take more chances in your pursuit of work because you can now turn down bad work. A lot more people would be taking a crack at running their own small businesses with such a safety net in place.