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Without Power, Puerto Rico Is Cash Only
- mtgx 9y agoSomething to think about before we all decide we want to be a "cashless society", especially when the U.S. also currently fears EMP attacks from North Korea, Russia, etc
- omarchowdhury 9y agoWould love to hear Bitcoin proponents solution to this.
- lightedman 9y agoYou won't, because they have no understanding of how anything truly works. Cash in hand is unhackable, almost entirely untraceable, and works when there is no power. 20:1 the Bitcoin people would propose some sort of buffered/delayed transaction solution. Of course that wouldn't work as there's no way of telling when you'd have restored power or connectivity. Puerto Rico is looking to have nothing for several weeks if not longer, much like the Ice Storm of 1994 in Western Tennessee.
- holydude 9y agoSee my other comment reg. cash. Cash is not the solution it is just a band aid.
- lightedman 9y agoCash is the solution. Your other comment is literally demonstrating what merchants have done for millennia before we had computers - write down the transactions in a ledger so you can keep track of daily business. Now, if the lady behind the counter had a problem counting cash - that's on her.
- holydude 9y agoWell yeah it is for inventory purposes.
- lojack 9y agoCash in hand isn’t unhackable at all. Counterfeiting is still a real thing.
- lightedman 9y agoCertain types of currency are absolutely unforgeable or easily detected if they are forged. Gold, for example. It's how we discovered specific gravity.
- chrissnell 9y agoNonsense. The average person, me included, could not detect impure gold if given a piece of it.
- dnautics 9y agoIt's not that hard. Take a Black Rock, and a few samples ok known purity, 75,80,95,100%. Then scratch the gold sample across a set of lines, of these purities, and see which is the closest.
- 21 9y agoYou failed. A lot of counterfeit gold has insertion of other metals in the center (tungsten for example which has a similar density) https://static6.businessinsider.com/image/505a1d2eeab8ea8610000007-480-640/fake-gold-bar.jpg https://static6.businessinsider.com/image/505a1d2eeab8ea8610...
- lightedman 9y agoTungsten is noticeably lighter, by about 7%. Hand-in-hand comparison with another similar-sized bar of pure gold would give it away instantly.
- 21 9y agoNote that I specifically talked about density, not weight. Wikipedia: Because the density is so similar to that of gold (tungsten is only 0.36% less dense), tungsten can also be used in counterfeiting of gold bars, such as by plating a tungsten bar with gold
- Finnucane 9y agoNot sure why you're getting downvoted; Bitcoin was clearly designed by someone with no understanding of how money actually works.
- digi_owl 9y agoIndeed. Bitcoin is a crossover point between cypherpunks and goldbugs.
- rothbardrand 9y agoBitcoin is pretty much the essence of the entire point of the cypherpunks. That an privacy, but bitcoin is nothing but a censorship resistant ledger.
- offtopicques 9y agothat bitcoin works would suggest your understanding does not survive contact with reality
- Finnucane 9y agoDoes it work as money? It hasn't yet.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- rothbardrand 9y agoYes, it has, though I'm sure you have some tortured narrow definition of "money" and an inaccurate assumption of some failing of bitcoin to claim that it hasn't. But that doesn't matter. All you're saying here is that it's going to be a few more years and a much higher bitcoin price until you convert over. That's your loss.
- omarchowdhury 9y ago
- sametmax 9y agoPeople didn't create bitcoin to replace cash. Years ago, the community tried to create an alternative to all existing money systems. That's all. No false promises. No silver bullet. Just a social experiment. The way you put it sounds like the early bitcoin believers were pretentious know-it-all getting over their head. What we tried to do was just something new related to money. And we did. We took risk. We were mocked. We invested time, energy and resources in a system we knew was experimental, unreliable and untested. And it did a dent. I would add, despite very negative people like you.
- lightedman 9y ago"I would add, despite very negative people like you." Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less databases like blockchains cannot scale without becoming centralized. The more people that wish to participate, the growth rate starts jumping from exponential to exponential * log with the bandwidth and storage requirements to ensure every other node on the network is properly updated. "People didn't create bitcoin to replace cash. Years ago, the community tried to create an alternative to all existing money systems. That's all." Cash is a money system. You contradict yourself.
- sametmax 9y ago> Have fun when you run into the same lesson left unlearned from the 70s - distributed permission-less databases like blockchains cannot scale without becoming centralized. The more people that wish to participate, the growth rate starts jumping from exponential to exponential * log with the bandwidth and storage requirements to ensure every other node on the network is properly updated. You mean it may fail ? Yes, we are aware. Since the beginning. That's what "experiment" comes from. > Cash is a money system. You contradict yourself. Being an alternative is not being a replacement. Just like the bike is an alternative to a car, and not a replacement for it. You seem to have a terrible grudge against bitcoin. I'm sorry about it, but it's irrelevant here. You may like it or not, but don't give the early community objectives we didn't have. We never sold a magical solution. We were not some 14 years old kid in a hoodie screaming "kill the banks". We hoped. A lot. We dreamed. We did noticed and disliked a lot of flaws in our current systems and institutions and explored other ways. But as intelligent people, we know very well the limit of the project and how much it can hurt. So keep your negativity to yourself. It's uncalled for, and definitely unwanted.
- phil21 9y agoBitcoin is the digital equivalent to paper cash money. It's pretty hard for me to teleport a $100 bill to someone a continent away, so Bitcoin works as analogous to cash as so far been invented. I agree that Bitcoin does in no way replace paper cash, simply complements it by extending many of it's features to the digital space. It also can be improved on drastically.
- tphyahoo 9y agoWhenever you have a question about bitcoin ask the same question about gold, most of the time it is the same answer. Can you use paper cash in a monetary system that runs on gold? Yes, see the 17th to 19th century. Banks issue counterfeit resistant pieces of paper that represent pieces of gold in the banks safe. Sometimes you get counterfeiting or fraud, but it works well enough. When the power gets turned back on you go back to using real bitcoin payments (which are more convenient than gold).
- rothbardrand 9y agoRegarding TEOTWAWKI Bitcoin is just as vulnerable as the existing financial system. In fact, lower level disasters can take out the existing system before they take out bitcoin. Why aren't you asking "I would love to hear keynesians answer to this!" Power outages are power outages and will harm every electric system, including gasoline, electric cars, food production, etc. The entire society relies on electricity. As for physical bitcoin, which can be transacted offline. Just hand it over like a dollar bill: https://opendime.com https://opendime.com Still mostly useful for larger amounts, though, due to the relative high cost of hardware, but it's new.
- walterbell 9y agoWake up call for "modern" retailers with touch screen cash registers that don't accept cash. They would either go out of business or have to invent a new ERP system on the fly.
- holydude 9y agoIf there would be an emp blast anywhere in the world you would have far bigger problems. Btw a cash counter in my local mcdonalds was out of order meaning the lady had to write down every payment on a piece of paper. Because apparently it is not enough to just hand over the banknotes. You need to know that you sold cafe latte for 3euros and a mcmuffin for 1.5.
- receipt 9y agoIt’s called a receipt, and they better be handing them out.
- mcculley 9y agoI’m sure their process needs a receipt. I usually don’t need documentation of such transactions. I often wish they had a way to decline the receipt so the paper isn’t wasted on something going straight into a waste bin.
- holydude 9y agoIn some shops in my area you can ask for a digital invoice via sms / email
- mcculley 9y agoLikewise in my area. But I don’t want a receipt at all for a bottle of water. I certainly don’t want to give the cashier my contact information. I want to spare them printing it out at all. Often they can’t because of their process. I’ve asked several cashiers about this.
- 9y ago
- kiba 9y agoNaw. We became so dependent on our electrical infrastructure that non-working ATM is just one more additional woe. If you want EMP resiliency, you may want to invest at least a few billion into it. Of course, steering the governmental budget to spend money on stuff that only raise electrical bill and will only prove its worth in an emergency and catastrophic situation is a hard pill to swallow, especially when there are competing priorities.
- Animats 9y agoIf we want EMP resiliency, we need to stop export controls on it. (US Munitions List [1], page 24.) It's not hard, or even expensive. All portable devices without cables could easily be EMP protected. Cars and trucks, especially, should be EMP-tested. Long wires are more of a problem. Lightning and surge protection devices should include EMP protection; some do, just because the devices are fast enough.[2] Fiber optic cables are totally immune to EMP. We're not going to get it from China. Anti-static Mylar bags are touted on Alibaba as "EMP protection". They're not. [1] https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/offi... [2] http://www.futurescience.com/emp/EMP-myths.html http://www.futurescience.com/emp/EMP-myths.html
- mikeash 9y agoI think this should be a lesson in better disaster preparation and response, not a lesson in handling payments.
- joering2 9y agoCash or not when it hits hard and you go to a local ground-master to buy food and water, he won't accept any fancy green paper printed with american president on it. It will be just paper in his eyes like a toilet roll. You can trade with your watch or other valuables but better yet make sure you have some silver coins. Just get few of these bags and you should be fine: http://www.monex.com/prods/silver_90.html http://www.monex.com/prods/silver_90.html
- TomMarius 9y agoWhy would he even care about silver? Bullets, weapons, water, actual toilet paper, food... That's what'd be valuable. Also cigarettes and alcohol even though it may seem illogical.
- firethief 9y agoDepends on what kind of apocalypse you're prepping for; fat lot of good all that stuff will do you without silver when the werewolves come.
- mcculley 9y agoI’ve never understood this fear over EMP attacks. Is there a viable EMP attack? Wouldn’t a blast strong enough to damage lots of infrastructure also damage the contents of human skulls?
- NotSammyHagar 9y agono, a high altitude emp burst of a nuke over a big city like nyc would be devestating to electronics but kill no one other than people dieing from the loss of power.
- mcculley 9y agoDo you have any citation for that? I would like to learn more about how that works.
- mikeash 9y agoWikipedia has a pretty good article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_puls... Note that this is not just theoretical. The American Starfish Prime nuclear test did significant damage to electrical systems in Hawaii, and the Soviets destroyed a power plant in Almaty with one of theirs.
- dredmorbius 9y agoIn any energy-transfer weapon, from a club to a bullet to a grenade to a nuke, the critical elements are: 1. How much energy is released? 2. Over what time period? 3. In what forms? 4. At what distance from the target / victim? A bullet which misses you by a millimeter might as well be 1,000 km away. It requires direct contact with tisue to transact damage. Where it hits you also matters, and in many cases, a light interaction with an extremity (hand, foot) may do little damage, whilst a trunk or head shot will be critical or instantly lethal. Much of that comes from the transmission of fluid shock through the body. (Watching super-slow-motion video of bullets impacting various targets on YouTube is ... interesting and informative.) A nuclear bomb delivers energy to the target in four major forms: 1. Prompt ionizing radiation. This is a pulse which lasts for a tiny fraction of a second, and is rapidly absorbed even by the atmosphere. It can be lethal or disabling at relatively close range. 2. Thermal pulse. Depending on the size of the weapon, this will ignite directly exposed flammable materials at ranges from a few hundreds of meters to a hundred km or so. This can be mitigated with white or reflective paint, or intervening structures. 3. Blast wave. This is the physical shockwave of the weapon (as well as any material picked up by it) which causes much of the direct damage. 4. Radioactive fallout. This is long-term radiation delivered generally downwind of the blast site. Exposure follows the seven-ten rule. For each increase by a factor of seven in time, the radiation falls by a factor of ten. A 1,000 rad dose 1 hour after the blast is 100 rads 7 hours after, 10 rads 2 days (49 hours) later, and 1 rad after two weeks. The detonations of nuclear weapons are fast, on the order of a microsecond (on one-millionth of a second). In large part it's the ability to deliver all its energy virtually instantly which gives a bomb its power. An alternative understanding comes from the idea of "generations" of nuclear interactions and their timescale -- a typical nuclear blast occurs over about 50 generations, after which the core has generally spontaneously disassembled past the point of sustainable reactions. (There's a pretty good Quora article on that point here: https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-a-nuclear-explosion-take https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-a-nuclear-explosion-take) Chemical explosives are far slower -- I believe closer to milisecond (thousandth-of-a-second) range. Or: a nuclear explosion is as much faster than a chemical explosion as a chemical explosion is to change taking a full second. A table of chemical reaction velocities peaks at 10,000 m/s, or 1 km/s, or 1m / 0.001s, suggesting a typical deonation period of 0.001ms - 1ms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_explosive_detonation_velocities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_explosive_detonation_... Meteor and meteorite impacts are often described in terms of megatons or Hiroshima-bomb equivalents. The Chelyabinsk meteorite is estimated to have released the energy of 20 - 30 Hiroshima-sized bombs, approximately 400 - 500 kilotons of TNT. However: 1. It did so primarily at an elevation of ~30 km, 2. over a period of 5 - 10 seconds, 3. in the form of light, heat, and sonic blast Much the same as you experience the same total change in kinetic energy whether you decelerate from 100 kph in 10 seconds or 0.01s, the difference is in the total shock and stress, as well as the energy delivered. TL;DR: a modest-sized nuclear blast high in the atmosphere or above it could have relatively modest ground impacts whilst delivering a strong EMP effect.
- chirau 9y agoWe in Zimbabwe know a thing or two about running on cash only. Been doing it for almost a decade.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Waterluvian 9y agoThat's wild to think about from my perspective. I haven't touched physical currency in years in Canada. I'm sure you get by just fine but it's an interesting thought. I kind of miss cash.
- techrich 9y agoOnce all the cash is gone, they can just turn your card off!
- uiri 9y agoI've never found a retailer in Canada who didn't take cash. The only exceptions would be buying stuff online which is Amazon and travel (flights, hotels, etc). Prepaid cell phones can be topped up by buying a code at a Shoppers for cash. Even your hydro bill will take a money order if you have cash but no bank account.
- 21 9y agoWhat's stopping you? I'm in UK, I have cards, but I try to use cash as much as possible. Having said that, almost every time I pay more than 20 in cash, the seller gives me the eye, puts the money under a UV light, and I feel like some sort of a criminal.
- KGIII 9y agoWhen they do that, I say, 'Don't look too closely, I just printed that up this morning.' Only once has it resulted in them calling a manager over. Every other time, it gets strange looks, a chuckle, a smile of mirth, or a groan. Either way, it's something unusual for them to hear in what is likely a repetitive job.
- TomK32 9y agoWhere's your bitcoins now?!
- IIAOPSW 9y agoStill mining by hand and announcing my tx to the network via snail mail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo
- matt4077 9y agoOn the good side, the hash rate will eventually adjust to mining by hand. On the bad side, people quickly run out of pen and paper, and the ham radio network desperately wants a hard fork to support side chains.
- rothbardrand 9y agoPhysical bitcoin, can be transacted offline. Just hand it over like a dollar bill: https://opendime.com https://opendime.com Still mostly useful for larger amounts, though, due to the relative high cost of hardware, but it's new.
- icebraining 9y agoI seem to remember a simpler version - it was a scratch card, which had the address fully visible (so you could check the balance was correct) but the private key hidden behind the scratching area. That way you could reuse the bill or scratch it and transfer the amount. Can't seem to find it again, though.
- px1999 9y agoHow would you be able to tell what the balance on the stick is without power? How would you be able to calculate the current value in fiat, if you had power but no internet? For that matter, how could you verify that someone hadn't transferred the balance in a transaction that didn't exist in your (now offline) ledger (if they had internet and you didn't)? At some point, if you're being practical rather than ideological, isnt cash the clear winner in these situations? YMMV if your currency isn't as stable as USD though
- deckar01 9y agoThis title is odd. Business that have ATMs instead of credit card machines are already cash only. It would be more accurate to say "without power to run credit card machines, Puerto Rico is cash only." It would be nice if there was a credit card machine that was powered by the phone line directly. Edit: Most of the small businesses I worked at growing up in rural Oklahoma had mechanical imprinting machines with carbon paper receipts so that they could process credit card payments offline.
- true_religion 9y agoAll you need to use a credit card machine is an internet connection and a device with a battery. And satalite internet still works.
- CydeWeys 9y agoVery few people had satellite Internet in Puerto Rico before the storm (And why would you? Landline worked fine and was cheaper). And now that it's after the storm, it's very hard to distribute those devices widely, plus people will likely have problems paying for them.
- jsjohnst 9y ago> And satalite internet still works. Satellite internet is also very expensive too.
- jacalata 9y agoHow long does a battery last without a way to recharge it?
- roywiggins 9y agoSo, electricity and a satphone. Both in very short supply there at the moment.
- froindt 9y ago>Most of the small businesses I worked at growing up in rural Oklahoma had mechanical imprinting machines with carbon paper receipts so that they could process credit card payments offline. I wonder how prevalent this is still? I've heard of restaurants keeping one around just in case. I wonder what the fee would be for imprinted credit card transactions? My most recent Citi DoubleCash card doesn't have embossed numbers. Could I still do an offline transaction?
- pjc50 9y agoThe abandonment of Puerto Rico by by the rest of the US, and its politicisation by the president, is extraordinary. How is this playing out over there in mainland US, or do people not really regard it as American?
- glibgil 9y agoYeah, people don’t really know. As far as most seem to take it is knowing the fact, “Puerto Rico is a territory, not its own country”. People on the mainland know that, but not what it means for PR. People don’t know how the Jones Act effects PR (and Hawaii and Alaska). People don’t know the gaps in representation and resources that PR’s status creates. Mention “PR” and coworkers are more likely to think “Pull Request”. Puerto Rico is just not on anyone’s radar unless you are from there or vacation there.
- Animats 9y agoThe Jones Act thing is a non-issue. Crowley Marine had 10,000 containers of relief supplies in the Port of San Juan by yesterday. Sealift isn't the bottleneck. The containers aren't leaving the port fast. The bottleneck is trucks, Diesel, drivers (only 20% have reported in, and with cell phone service down, can't be called), and roads. Especially roads. It's not just roads being blocked by debris. Many are washed out. Bridges, too. Unlike Houston and Florida, Puerto Rico is mountainous. Just getting access to the interior of the island is tough. This may result in San Juan returning to close to normal while people are still dying in the hinterlands.
- glibgil 9y agoThe Jones Act favors one large port in San Juan. If it wasn’t for that there would be well developed ports on the north and west sides of PR. Distribution in a catastrophe would depend less on the long road routes from east to west
- notyourday 9y agoYou mean the US is treating PR like US Virgin Islands and not like Texas? I'm shocked, shocked, shocked that "Oh no, we want not to be a state eff-you!" had consequences.
- glibgil 9y agoJust a reminder that anyone can issue credit. A composition notebook and a pencil is all it takes to keep record. 1. Pay by the end of the month and it doesn’t effect me. No interest. 2. Otherwise, 1% to 1.5% of the balance in interest month over month. You have to pay at least the interest every month. 3. If I need to borrow, I can do it on the strength of my accounts receivable and my ability to collect interest payments reliably. 4. If I don’t get payed back, I can take someone to court when things are back to normal and yes, the court will side with me. 4.b There's always ways to create incentives to pay debts. It has worked this way for hundreds of years in parts of Latin America and other areas of the world with fluctuating infrastructure.
- digi_owl 9y agoAnd likely thousands of years before that, until the economists and their fairy tales came around.
- trendia 9y agoAre you saying the switch from paper ledgers to computerized ledgers was the result of economists? If so, I'd argue that the switch is the result of convenience and accuracy.
- digi_owl 9y agoNo. What i am saying that anthropological findings suggests that some kind of debt tracking was the default mode of transactions within a village in ancient times, not the barter fantasy that economics cling to.
- maxerickson 9y agoA fun hybrid example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones Ownership of the stones was maintained by oral history rather than by possession.
- temp-dude-87844 9y agoIn most contemporary societies, including the United States, there are really no provisions, practices, and doctrines to handle a large city's worth of people's disruption of daily routine. We've seen this with Katrina and Sandy, but more recently with Harvey, Irma, and Maria. Puerto Rico's situation is worse because of several compounding factors that work against them: the scale of the disaster, communication and coordination issues, logistical challenges, and a belligerent rhetoric coming from the topmost levels of the US federal government despite lower-level federal employees being part of of a burgeoning, although so far inadequate recovery effort. But in each of these disasters, the hard questions to which society offers zero answers begin long before the disaster actually strikes. Universities and research organizations have long studied reasons why people don't evacuate, and while discretionary answers exist, many people simply report being unable to afford the expenses of a temporary relocation away from one's regular job for a disaster that's forecasted to perhaps occur 3-5 days out. You can invoke the argument that it's literally a matter of life and death and that ought to be worth any expense, but that's not helpful when people may not have cash on hand, or quick access to easy emergency credit that would be guaranteed by some higher party. It's truly unfortunate that situation is that disaster aid for forecastable disasters only kicks in once it has already struck, and not days before when its inevitability becomes clear. In Puerto Rico's current case, the breakdown of societal structures due to lack of electricity, lack of electronic communication, lack of fuel, lack of distribution capability is unfortunate enough, but the degenerate functioning of life is just bizarre; people are now trying to get by in a worst-of-both-worlds hybrid of subsistence tribalism and wage-earning capitalism, where they both have to forage for food and water and barter for supplies, while at the same time giving the rest of their cash-on-hand to large corporations like CVS for stuff that's still on the shelves; and any changes to this status quo are reliant on random individuals' goodwill -- like a shopowner who decides to give away supplies -- instead of any organized directives from top-down.
- pjc50 9y ago> worst-of-both-worlds hybrid of subsistence tribalism and wage-earning capitalism The bottom end of capitalism often looks quite like subsistence tribalism. > many people simply report being unable to afford the expenses of a temporary relocation away from one's regular job for a disaster that's forecasted to perhaps occur 3-5 days out Well, yes. You can be sure that everyone outside the disaster zone will be along to restore capitalism before they restore electricity. The disaster is temporary but the economic structure remains. It's not even clear that being homeless in NYC on your own is better than being homeless in the ruins of your community. It may be better to turn up to your non-functional workplace and keep your job than evacuate and lose it. http://www.naplesnews.com/story/weather/hurricanes/2017/09/07/youre-fired-florida-evacuees-have-few-legal-protections-termination/642866001/ http://www.naplesnews.com/story/weather/hurricanes/2017/09/0... (I think well-off people underestimate how much ordinary capitalism looks like imminent disaster to people at the sharp end - it's no use if the stores are open and the hospitals working if you can't afford food or healthcare.)
- chrissnell 9y agoIn my opinion, the three currencies of the apocalypse are: ammunition, water, and diesel fuel. Ammunition is the universal apocalyptic currency. You can hunt with it and you can protect your family, food, and possessions with it. It is shelf-stable and easily subdivided. It can be put in a box and buried or carried in your pocket. Lots of people own guns but few have significant stashes of ammunition. A staple of chaotic times. Water, that’s obvious, but you need a way to collect it and clean it. Those are their own currencies. Diesel powers computer-less trucks like my old Land Rover Defender 110. Probably the last running vehicles in an apocalypse. It also runs generators and water pumps. It can potentially be manufactured by civilians.
- Clubber 9y agoBelieve it or not, diesel (and regular gas) is perishable. It starts to degrade as soon as 30 days without additives. It's still usable for a while though. Assuming a long term (lifetime) apocalypse, most of it will go bad eventually. https://www.goldeagle.com/tips-tools/how-long-does-diesel-fuel-last-storage https://www.goldeagle.com/tips-tools/how-long-does-diesel-fu... Ammunition is tricky because there are so many "denominations" (i.e. calibers). It would certainly come in handy. One of the biggest benefits of the M16 for the US military was that it was standardized, meaning every branch used it and they all used the same caliber. I think canned food would be important too. Quite a revolutionary concept we take for granted (we can thank Napoleon). Fun fact, canned food was invented 48 years before the can opener. I think drugs and alcohol would be a huge currency. Always have been in one form or the other. Of course most people in cities would be hosed after the canned food ran out, unless there was a severe population drop. Read the book "Alas Babylon," it is a good fiction about nuclear war.
- sliverstorm 9y agoNot to mention many diesel appliances would break down and be unrepairable in a few years or less. There would be backup generators and such that might go a hundred years, of course, but the point is demand for diesel might be high at first, but rapidly vanish.
- pryelluw 9y agoLocal here: Its not cash only anymore. ATM service is coming back up to a lot of the island. Banks are opening and things are looking up. Life is somewhat getting back to normal. The big issue is that people are now realizing that they are out of jobs. Its why Im moving to Atlanta this month. Things are bound to get interesting once the poor run out of money. Btw, going to use this space (and please excuse me) to let the community know that Im available for hire. Please email me at pryelluw@gmail.com for more details or tweet at me @pryelluw You can find a link to my resume on my profile. Willing to relocate whithin the continental US.
- jnbiche 9y agoYes, use this opportunity to make contacts. But I'd recommend you add a sentence or two to let HN employers know your professional background and skills. I see from your profile that you do Python, Django, and JavaScript, anything else? Your impressive blog discusses functional programming a lot. Only willing to consider Atlanta, or other cities in Southeast? (Raleigh-Durham is another big regional employer of programmers, and hires lots of Python folks) Also, I'm guessing things are only looking up in San Juan, right? The outlying areas still have no clean drinking water, food, or medicine from what I'm seeing.
- pryelluw 9y agoThanks for the feedback. Ive updated my bio and included a link to my most recent resume. I have no issues with relocating within the US (as long as its not Alaska). I live near San Juan (about 3o mins out and things sure are better than in other areas. But people are still currently in a state of shock and havent realized the implications of the catastrophe. My dad lives where the eye entered and it looks lime a set for the walking dead tv show.
- unlmtd1 9y agoWhy only the US?
- 9y ago
- strangattractor 9y agoIf they had only switched to Bitcoin they wouldn't have this problem - NOT
- rothbardrand 9y agoPhysical bitcoin, can be transacted offline. Just hand it over like a dollar bill: https://opendime.com https://opendime.com Still mostly useful for larger amounts, though, due to the relative high cost of hardware, but it's new.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nebabyte 9y ago> opendime [...] it's new So everyone pays tithe to a single organization that creates 'trustable' units of physical currency. So new! At least with cash you're not destroying the physical currency every time you use it. (That and the Mint's security measures are just a liittle more advanced than "we put some epoxy on a USB stick")
- throwaway5752 9y agoWho the fuck cares if they're cash only? The lack basic modern necessities like fresh water, sewage, and power in a lot of places. If they're without power, how long will generators hold out to keep temperature sensitive medicines good, or blood transfusion supplies? How many people are going to die because of this? When will cholera set in? This is fucking insane. I feel like the US has lost it's mind that anyone thinks is acceptable to do anything else except shaming and protesting so this administration does something: https://twitter.com/aynrandpaulryan/status/913426909282713600 https://twitter.com/aynrandpaulryan/status/91342690928271360...
- PoliteTwig 9y ago> https://twitter.com/aynrandpaulryan/status/9134269092827136000 https://twitter.com/aynrandpaulryan/status/91342690928271360... Do you have a second source for that claim that is not anonymous and not being reported by an anti-Trump activist?
- afterburner 9y agoWhat exactly are you doubting?
- eradicatethots 9y agoPersonally I’m doubting that they’re accurately representing things
- PoliteTwig 9y agoI'm doubting the twitter link's claims that: (1) The White House had no report on Puerto Rico during a conference call with FEMA Sep 25 (2) Therefore WH "had no plans to make any moves in PR". I don't see this being reported elsewhere. The parent thought this was important enough though to back up his argument that the Trump administration is not enough doing, and I'm skeptical of both the source and the broader message. From what I can tell, there was a major disaster and many people are struggling right now. It was made worse than it needed to be by unpreparedness and poor infrastructure. Now relief efforts are underway but they aren't happening as quickly as Houston or Florida because it's harder to reach Puerto Rico, so politicians and activists with other grievances are using this opportunity to criticize the White House. Is that incorrect?
- unlmtd1 9y ago> “You’re broke even if you have money,” Mr. Jimenez, 40, said. There are still gullible people who believe those so-called 'banks' actually have their government paper bonds. Yes I purposefully used this term to emphasize that those notes are not cash or money. Money is a commodity, and the paper credit is (should be) a receipt for it. A dollar is 1.505g of gold.
- giancarlostoro 9y agoI'll take this chance to mention this since not a lot of people know, and maybe someone can get this information out to friends / family in Puerto Rico who can help: Puerto Rico has a lot of supplies[0] which many cities need, but they're sitting in limbo. The issue is there are not enough actual truck drivers. The Governor of Puerto Rico is calling forth any truck drivers to come to San Juan where they were sitting for days (a week?). The issue is because the grid is down contracting truck drivers becomes harder and almost impossible. I do know some land lines do work in some parts of Puerto Rico, but maybe not all parts. I'm not sure about what people around the USA can do 100% but I heard of a friend from here in Florida who was going to volunteer to drive trucks in Puerto Rico, you need to be licensed as a prerequisite of course. [0]: http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/ind...
- odammit 9y agoNot to sound like a doomsday prepper but my dad instilled in me growing up in south Florida to “be the bank” in case I was ever in a scenario like this. I keep a months worth of pay on hand in small bills and a months worth of pay in 1/10th ounce gold coins. Nothing like needing a bottle of water and only having $20s.
- korzun 9y agoWhere do you live? I would love to hear all about it.
- mlevental 9y agowhat is the point of the gold coins? if we get to the point where people start asking for gold there will be absolutely no fixed exchange rate
- odammit 9y agoJust in case US currency becomes worthless :D I also keep the spot price and a copy of global exchange rates from each purchase of my gold so I can back it out to what it’s worth. You know, just in case. You never know until you know.
- mlevental 9y agoi can't fathom the fundamental misunderstanding that leads to thinking like this: >I also keep the spot price and a copy of global exchange rates from each purchase of my gold so I can back it out to what it’s worth. You know, just in case. do you think you'll present your certificates to marauders and they'll just say "i guess you're right 1 oz is the fair market value for this water"? i had a similar argument with someone about gold as a store of value years ago: the value is market determined. no one in the apocalypse is going to care about any price you have a record of because there will be no markets.
- odammit 9y agoMore so to keep track of my own gains/losses if I sold it for another currency, not to buy a tricked out armored 4 wheeler from a man dressed like a steam punk named Mr Pain-x. Edit: Fuck I hope google sheets is still up when the time comes. I should probably print them.
- jdoliner 9y ago> We have been getting shipments of money. It's kinda weird to think that at a time when there are huge shortages of basically everything it makes sense to use shipping space on something whose value is purely symbolic. I do get that they're shipping plenty of other things and the cash is probably a pretty small piece of the total space, but still it's worth thinking about.
- akira2501 9y ago> whose value is purely symbolic. A symbolism so powerful it can override human nature. I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate the importance of it.
- bobthepanda 9y agoIf there's too little cash, people will start hoarding and the economy will quite literally grind to a halt as people are reluctant to part with money. Going back to bartering is a great way to induce a depression.
- Robotbeat 9y agoBartering often comes after a depression already exists. When liquidity drops to zero, people will develop their own money. Bottles of Tide, gasoline, cigarettes, etc.
- ant6n 9y agoMmh, seems that the first level of Prepping is keeping some cash around.
- SubiculumCode 9y agoNot being a state, can Pierto Rico mint its own currency?
- ars 9y agoThey have to follow all Federal laws that deal with that. Not being a state doesn't change that. I assume you are asking out of curiosity, since that would not help anything on a practical level. There is no shortage of cash, the problem is getting it to people.
- known 9y agoBlame it on irrational dependence on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_energy#Green_energy_and_green_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_energy#Green_energ...
- simonebrunozzi 9y agoGreat opportunity for all the bitcoin enthusiasts to show the world how a (small) nation can run on cryptocurrencies (you just need mobile phone connectivity - SMS/text could also be sufficient).
- fludlight 9y ago> (you just need mobile phone connectivity - SMS/text could also be sufficient). kinda hard without power