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New York City: Data Science’s Best Bet for Growth and Opportunity

56 points by agconway 9y ago

code4tee 9y ago
NYC has a much more diverse business environment than the Valley and that grounds the tech industry a lot more to focus on solving problems. There's much less acceptance of "Uber for lawn gnomes" app companies and a lot more pressure to deliver true value (in my observation).
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vdnkh 9y ago
I live and work in NYC as a JS developer, and I feel like it's a great place to be. The community is strong here and there's a lot of diversity in what people do, technical or not, within the tech community. The amenities are good and I walk to work and honestly the rents are not that bad. Manhattan is the most expensive, but if you want to save money Brooklyn, Queens, NJ, etc. are cheaper and all linked by (mostly working) public transit. One of the biggest factors keeping me here is the public transit and the fact that I don't need to drive and sit in traffic.
- Swizec 9y ago
  As someone living in SF I’ve been seriously eyeing NYC for a while now. It just seems like an overall better city. The roads are better, the people seem more varied, there’s even more things to do outside work, there are seasons (god I miss weather), and the tech scene is probably almost as strong. But are there many startups? It almost seems these days more startups are coming out of Europe than out of NYC.
  - lobotryas 9y ago
    You may want to consider a gentle reintroduction to "weather", especially East Coast winters. Snow is fun when you're on a ski vacation. Decidedly less so when it's wet and getting whipped into your face by the wind as you trudge to work.
    - Swizec 9y ago
      Nah I grew up in south central europe, I’m good with weather. Seeing -15C (5F) and 38C (100F) in the same year is pretty normal to me. Honestly I moved to SF to escape the summer heat and now I miss my winters and falls and springs and it’s been crazy hot here lately.
    - huac 9y ago
      Don't forget winter and spring time slush. There's a reason Timberland boots are so big in NYC.
    - brentm 9y ago
      The winters in NYC really aren't that bad. Yes occasionally it snows but the storms that dump inches of snow are infrequent enough to be novel. When it's cold it's cold but if you're wearing the right jacket that isn't bad either.
      - santaclaus 9y ago
        > The winters in NYC really aren't that bad. I still have nightmares about those hidden pools of half frozen brown sludge that accumulate at street corners that turn your shoes pitch black if you accidentally step in one!
    - nerfhammer 9y ago
      Yea but the part of the year when it's not cold it stays not cold all night so you don't have to think about the jacket you're going to need to change into every day all year.
  - overcast 9y ago
    SF and NYC are polar opposites in nearly every aspect of daily life. For one to jump ship to either or, is a big difference. I prefer the seasons as well, I couldn't live in any place where it's basically the same weather ever day. Fall just arrived here in New York (the best season ever).
  - cddotdotslash 9y ago
    The startup scene is pretty decent. There are hundreds of companies here, including some pretty big names: DigitalOcean, BlueApron, Etsy, Casper, Compass, Stack Overflow, Jet (technically in NJ, but close enough), Meetup, etc. Not to mention that the larger ones (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Adobe, etc) all have pretty large offices here. What I like most is the diversity in the companies. They're "tech" companies, but their business is advertising, finance, real estate, and lots of other industries. There is so much diversity here that, even if you only hang out with technically-minded people, you'll still have plenty to talk about. When I lived in SF, every person seemed to do the exact same thing but for a slightly different variation of the same kind of company. Anyway, I'm obviously biased, but I prefer NYC to SF. The weather was a huge point for me, but also the fact that NYC just "feels" more like a city - it's incredibly dense in most parts of Manhattan, which makes it easy to walk to almost anything. Diversity are transportation are two other big pros.
  - santaclaus 9y ago
    > The roads are better Are you planning to drive in Manhattan? Car ownership in NYC is a world of hurt.
    - Swizec 9y ago
      No I'm just tired of potholes being more dangerous to me on a Boosted Board than bad drivers. There's so much money in this city, why can't we use some of it to have better roads than 3rd world countries?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - aeriklawson 9y ago
    One thing to keep in mind is that ads and media are a big focus here - not to say that every company is in that game, but you'll notice quite a lot are. I don't really find that field interesting so it does out leave out options for me personally.
- brentm 9y ago
  What kind of events would you recommend for someone trying to get more involved in the NYC community? I've been in Brooklyn for a while but work remotely and more or less exist outside of the tech community but would like to get involved.
  - neovive 9y ago
    Meetup.com has many great tech meetup groups. Most of the active niche tech meetups are hosted in NYC on weekday evenings, but there are some more general Brooklyn tech meetups.
  - riot504 9y ago
    I have only spent a week in NYC but this place was amazing, granted I am a jazz enthusiast so potentially biased. https://www.smallslive.com/ https://www.smallslive.com/
  - vdnkh 9y ago
    I like the BoroJS family of meetups. Their schtick is "people focused" javascript. Good talks, venues, and interesting company. But sometimes it can feel a bit cliquey because the organizers are obviously good friends. http://borojs.com/ http://borojs.com/ Oops, I thought you said "meetups" not stuff outside of tech. I personally like to climb, bike, and visit breweries. Biking is fun because you can stop off and explore wherever you feel like.
- JustAnotherPat 9y ago
  I don't know what you're talking about, but the rents are easily the 2nd worst, possibly the worst, in the country. COL adjusted, it is the worst of all the major tech cities [0] for software developers. 0. https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017
  - sotojuan 9y ago
    I've lived in NYC in 75, 80, and 100k salaries and I've been fine in all cases. And that's without roommates and my SO being a student (so she can only contribute a bit for groceries, not rent). Rents are high, but so are software engineer salaries. Almost all of my friends who work in other industries make do with 50-60k salaries - we're fine. If you really want to save, get a 2 bedroom apartment with someone. If they make >70k you will have a good amount of money for fun/saving/loans.
rm999 9y ago
NYC has a great ecosystem of experienced people who know how to program, know math, and understand how businesses/product work. In this regard there are many amazing qualified data science practitioners. But, the data science startup scene is not really thriving in NYC yet. Compared to the Bay Area, I see two main issues: a lack of data scientists with strong software engineering skills, and a lot less angel money (probably due to very few large successful exits).
- cspanopticon 9y ago
  >>lack of data scientists with strong engineering skills >>less angel money absolutely. this article is a great 30k feet up review of the scene and what you add is true. i operate NYC but literally live 100s of miles away as my affordable housing policy, because I am building an open data science consultancy that is revenue driven. what i'd add happens is that your scientists and tech people are a step removed from the real-world disciplines put in their petrie dish. they are not working in business settings, but institutional ones, because there isn't quite a silicon valley thing, and public-private-partnerships in NY mostly mean corruption, not innovation. that said, what makes the NYC scene really amazing is that most of us are doing our part as a civic project.
ryandrake 9y ago
As someone who grew up in the NYC area, and who is currently feeling the crushing suffocation of SF Bay Area cost of living, I'd love to go back. But aren't the problems similar? In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours--not much different than in SF. Plus, my understanding is that back east, tech is what companies use rather than what companies make, so at most companies you'll be in a supporting role rather than building the products. Is this true or are my assumptions outdated?
- skj 9y ago
  If you can afford a child's closet in SF, you can afford a small house in NJ that is far closer than the 2+ hours you'd need to spend each way from PA.
- santaclaus 9y ago
  > In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours An hour on Metro North gets you into reasonably priced home areas.
- kmicklas 9y ago
  > In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours--not much different than in SF. Why do you want to own a home so badly? Most people in NYC are perfectly happy to rent. But if you plan on staying in the city long term and have a tech salary you can definitely buy and save money eventually. > Plus, my understanding is that back east, tech is what companies use rather than what companies make, so at most companies you'll be in a supporting role rather than building the products. The first part is definitely kind of true, the second part depends. If you're really passionate about tech as an industry then yes you might like SF more, but if you care about products that provide value to everyday people and not Uber for X then maybe you'd like NYC companies more.
- dmode 9y ago
  If you are looking to relocate, why go to a place that offers the same challenges. Isn't going to Denver or Portland or Seattle a better option ?
Nelkins 9y ago
In case anyone wasn't aware of the existence, the Open Data Law[1] means that there are lots of fun data sets to play with [2]. Plenty of fodder for data science projects. And if you want to get involved BetaNYC is one of the larger civic hacker communities. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doitt/initiatives/open-data-law.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doitt/initiatives/open-data-law.pa... [2] https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/data/ https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/data/ [3] https://beta.nyc/ https://beta.nyc/

56 points by agconway 9y ago

NYC has a much more diverse business environment than the Valley and that grounds the tech industry a lot more to focus on solving problems. There's much less acceptance of "Uber for lawn gnomes" app companies and a lot more pressure to deliver true value (in my observation).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vdnkh 9y ago

I live and work in NYC as a JS developer, and I feel like it's a great place to be. The community is strong here and there's a lot of diversity in what people do, technical or not, within the tech community. The amenities are good and I walk to work and honestly the rents are not that bad. Manhattan is the most expensive, but if you want to save money Brooklyn, Queens, NJ, etc. are cheaper and all linked by (mostly working) public transit. One of the biggest factors keeping me here is the public transit and the fact that I don't need to drive and sit in traffic.

Swizec 9y ago
As someone living in SF I’ve been seriously eyeing NYC for a while now. It just seems like an overall better city. The roads are better, the people seem more varied, there’s even more things to do outside work, there are seasons (god I miss weather), and the tech scene is probably almost as strong. But are there many startups? It almost seems these days more startups are coming out of Europe than out of NYC.
- lobotryas 9y ago
  You may want to consider a gentle reintroduction to "weather", especially East Coast winters. Snow is fun when you're on a ski vacation. Decidedly less so when it's wet and getting whipped into your face by the wind as you trudge to work.
  - Swizec 9y ago
    Nah I grew up in south central europe, I’m good with weather. Seeing -15C (5F) and 38C (100F) in the same year is pretty normal to me. Honestly I moved to SF to escape the summer heat and now I miss my winters and falls and springs and it’s been crazy hot here lately.
  - huac 9y ago
    Don't forget winter and spring time slush. There's a reason Timberland boots are so big in NYC.
  - brentm 9y ago
    The winters in NYC really aren't that bad. Yes occasionally it snows but the storms that dump inches of snow are infrequent enough to be novel. When it's cold it's cold but if you're wearing the right jacket that isn't bad either.
    - santaclaus 9y ago
      > The winters in NYC really aren't that bad. I still have nightmares about those hidden pools of half frozen brown sludge that accumulate at street corners that turn your shoes pitch black if you accidentally step in one!
  - nerfhammer 9y ago
    Yea but the part of the year when it's not cold it stays not cold all night so you don't have to think about the jacket you're going to need to change into every day all year.
- overcast 9y ago
  SF and NYC are polar opposites in nearly every aspect of daily life. For one to jump ship to either or, is a big difference. I prefer the seasons as well, I couldn't live in any place where it's basically the same weather ever day. Fall just arrived here in New York (the best season ever).
- cddotdotslash 9y ago
  The startup scene is pretty decent. There are hundreds of companies here, including some pretty big names: DigitalOcean, BlueApron, Etsy, Casper, Compass, Stack Overflow, Jet (technically in NJ, but close enough), Meetup, etc. Not to mention that the larger ones (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Adobe, etc) all have pretty large offices here. What I like most is the diversity in the companies. They're "tech" companies, but their business is advertising, finance, real estate, and lots of other industries. There is so much diversity here that, even if you only hang out with technically-minded people, you'll still have plenty to talk about. When I lived in SF, every person seemed to do the exact same thing but for a slightly different variation of the same kind of company. Anyway, I'm obviously biased, but I prefer NYC to SF. The weather was a huge point for me, but also the fact that NYC just "feels" more like a city - it's incredibly dense in most parts of Manhattan, which makes it easy to walk to almost anything. Diversity are transportation are two other big pros.
- santaclaus 9y ago
  > The roads are better Are you planning to drive in Manhattan? Car ownership in NYC is a world of hurt.
  - Swizec 9y ago
    No I'm just tired of potholes being more dangerous to me on a Boosted Board than bad drivers. There's so much money in this city, why can't we use some of it to have better roads than 3rd world countries?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- aeriklawson 9y ago
  One thing to keep in mind is that ads and media are a big focus here - not to say that every company is in that game, but you'll notice quite a lot are. I don't really find that field interesting so it does out leave out options for me personally.
brentm 9y ago
What kind of events would you recommend for someone trying to get more involved in the NYC community? I've been in Brooklyn for a while but work remotely and more or less exist outside of the tech community but would like to get involved.
- neovive 9y ago
  Meetup.com has many great tech meetup groups. Most of the active niche tech meetups are hosted in NYC on weekday evenings, but there are some more general Brooklyn tech meetups.
- riot504 9y ago
  I have only spent a week in NYC but this place was amazing, granted I am a jazz enthusiast so potentially biased. https://www.smallslive.com/ https://www.smallslive.com/
- vdnkh 9y ago
  I like the BoroJS family of meetups. Their schtick is "people focused" javascript. Good talks, venues, and interesting company. But sometimes it can feel a bit cliquey because the organizers are obviously good friends. http://borojs.com/ http://borojs.com/ Oops, I thought you said "meetups" not stuff outside of tech. I personally like to climb, bike, and visit breweries. Biking is fun because you can stop off and explore wherever you feel like.
JustAnotherPat 9y ago
I don't know what you're talking about, but the rents are easily the 2nd worst, possibly the worst, in the country. COL adjusted, it is the worst of all the major tech cities [0] for software developers. 0. https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017
- sotojuan 9y ago
  I've lived in NYC in 75, 80, and 100k salaries and I've been fine in all cases. And that's without roommates and my SO being a student (so she can only contribute a bit for groceries, not rent). Rents are high, but so are software engineer salaries. Almost all of my friends who work in other industries make do with 50-60k salaries - we're fine. If you really want to save, get a 2 bedroom apartment with someone. If they make >70k you will have a good amount of money for fun/saving/loans.

rm999 9y ago

NYC has a great ecosystem of experienced people who know how to program, know math, and understand how businesses/product work. In this regard there are many amazing qualified data science practitioners. But, the data science startup scene is not really thriving in NYC yet. Compared to the Bay Area, I see two main issues: a lack of data scientists with strong software engineering skills, and a lot less angel money (probably due to very few large successful exits).

cspanopticon 9y ago
>>lack of data scientists with strong engineering skills >>less angel money absolutely. this article is a great 30k feet up review of the scene and what you add is true. i operate NYC but literally live 100s of miles away as my affordable housing policy, because I am building an open data science consultancy that is revenue driven. what i'd add happens is that your scientists and tech people are a step removed from the real-world disciplines put in their petrie dish. they are not working in business settings, but institutional ones, because there isn't quite a silicon valley thing, and public-private-partnerships in NY mostly mean corruption, not innovation. that said, what makes the NYC scene really amazing is that most of us are doing our part as a civic project.

ryandrake 9y ago

As someone who grew up in the NYC area, and who is currently feeling the crushing suffocation of SF Bay Area cost of living, I'd love to go back. But aren't the problems similar? In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours--not much different than in SF. Plus, my understanding is that back east, tech is what companies use rather than what companies make, so at most companies you'll be in a supporting role rather than building the products. Is this true or are my assumptions outdated?

skj 9y ago
If you can afford a child's closet in SF, you can afford a small house in NJ that is far closer than the 2+ hours you'd need to spend each way from PA.
santaclaus 9y ago
> In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours An hour on Metro North gets you into reasonably priced home areas.
kmicklas 9y ago
> In order to afford to own a home I'd likely have to live in Pennsylvania and commute 2+ hours--not much different than in SF. Why do you want to own a home so badly? Most people in NYC are perfectly happy to rent. But if you plan on staying in the city long term and have a tech salary you can definitely buy and save money eventually. > Plus, my understanding is that back east, tech is what companies use rather than what companies make, so at most companies you'll be in a supporting role rather than building the products. The first part is definitely kind of true, the second part depends. If you're really passionate about tech as an industry then yes you might like SF more, but if you care about products that provide value to everyday people and not Uber for X then maybe you'd like NYC companies more.
dmode 9y ago
If you are looking to relocate, why go to a place that offers the same challenges. Isn't going to Denver or Portland or Seattle a better option ?

Nelkins 9y ago

In case anyone wasn't aware of the existence, the Open Data Law[1] means that there are lots of fun data sets to play with [2]. Plenty of fodder for data science projects. And if you want to get involved BetaNYC is one of the larger civic hacker communities. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doitt/initiatives/open-data-law.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doitt/initiatives/open-data-law.pa... [2] https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/data/ https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/data/ [3] https://beta.nyc/ https://beta.nyc/