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I always thought that a regulation along the lines of "if you sell it, you must give the customer the ability to dispose of it" would be nice. And, yes, I do th

I always thought that a regulation along the lines of "if you sell it, you must give the customer the ability to dispose of it" would be nice. And, yes, I do think that means Amazon would have to have some sort of bricks-and-mortar operation: at minimum there must be a shop owned by someone, which Amazon has a deal with, that you'd be able to drop your discarded Amajunk off at. Also, I also think we should have a carbon recapture tax added to gasoline, but no one I know really wants to pay an additional tax of 7-10$/gallon.

Someone 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibili..., which, in the EU, led to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electronic_Equipment_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electroni..., which puts the responsibility on manufacturers, rather than sellers. That takes care of that Amazon problem. As always in the EU, the exact effect of these differs by country (EU directives describe goals, and leave the means to get there to member countries)
5555624 9y ago
Amazon wouldn't need a brick-and-mortar operation. Just log into your account and print out a postpaid shipping label. They keep your purchase history; so, you could look up the order and click a link next to the item. There are far more Post Offices than any shops they could make a deal with.
- Teever 9y ago
  Wait, does Amazon ship the junk back to China too and then China disassembles it and ships the elements back to their respective holes in the ground? It seems like a better idea would be to just have Amazon give you a voucher for the recycling fees in your local community.
  - amichal 9y ago
    Most "Recycled" electronics are sent back to china at least in part Edit: summary at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China
    - Teever 9y ago
      Sure but it seems a little inefficient to send them individually is my point.
      - icebraining 9y ago
        You never ship them individually, you use containers. And it's probably quite efficient: the shipping boats have to return to China anyway to get more stuff.
        jdietrich 9y ago
        It's basically free. There's far more stuff coming from China to the west than vice-versa. A ship can't travel empty, but needs to be ballasted with an appropriate weight of cargo. If there isn't enough booked cargo on the return leg to China, they'll make up the weight with scrap metal or rubble.
        Teever 9y ago
        I'm referring to the shipping of the broken goods to amazon individually. That's the part I'm critical of. Sure, send them back to China, I don't care, it just seems silly that we would all just mail our broken junk back one piece at a time to AMazon who then puts it in a container and sends it to China. Better to take it to alocal recycling facility for them to send it en masse. Have Amazon give you a voucher to handle the recycling fee.
        icebraining 9y ago
        Trucks coming from the Amazon warehouse also have to come back. Still, Amazon just gifted me an item when I tried to return it since I ordered it by mistake (and I was honest on the form). I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to avoid recycling returns too.
dclowd9901 9y ago
Tax on gasoline like that would only affect the poorest of citizens. Charge it on shares of gasoline producing companies and car companies so their share holders scream at them to move to less carbon-y energy creation mechanisms.
- isolli 9y ago
  There is a solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_and_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_and_dividend
- icebraining 9y ago
  The end result would be the same, they would just pass the costs to the consumer.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  The poorest citizens don't own cars.
  - gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
    It does depend on where you live. In US they probably do. In EU countries they probably don't.
  - thomastjeffery 9y ago
    But they get their groceries from stores that deliver goods via trucks.
  - walterstucco 9y ago
    Actually they are the only one owning them because they need them They live outside the cities where housing is more affordable but there's no public transport
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    Oh yes they do. They might have 240,000 miles on them, but poor people, like myself, have/need a vechicle. And poor people work on their own vechicles. If you do all the repairs on a vechicle, and don't have high insurance; driving a older vechicle is cost efficient, and a necessity for many poor people. I cringe when I hear about more gas taxes. Tax people on Income.
thomastjeffery 9y ago
> Also, I also think we should have a carbon recapture tax added to gasoline That can't work for any country that has "country". In the US, the vast majority of goods are delivered using trucks that burn diesel. You can't have a gas tax without a diesel tax. Everyone would just switch over. If you tax gas, you effectively tax everything, and that's not okay for any economy.
- vkou 9y ago
  > If you tax gas, you effectively tax everything, and that's not okay for any economy. Why? The purpose of the carbon tax is to capture the negative externality of carbon pollution, and to encourage more energy-efficient industries. Not all parts of the economy use equal amounts of energy, and we should encourage the energy-efficient ones. I burn carbon when I drive my car to work. I burn much less carbon when I take the bus to work. We want to encourage the latter - carbon taxes let the market do this encouragement. The alternative is doing so by government fiat.
  - thomastjeffery 9y ago
    > I burn much less carbon when I take the bus to work. I understand that. It's the obvious reasoning behind a gas tax. My entire point is that there are also other effects. If gas prices raise significantly, then the price of everything - groceries, medication, clothing, cleaning supplies, solar panels, everything - raises, meaning simple things that everyone relies on suddenly become unaffordable to low-wage workers, so their employers suddenly need to raise profits to accommodate the price hike, and raise wages for the bulk of their employees, or (more likely) simply fail, resulting in a significant unemployment increase. You can't just magically fix climate change by putting the poor out of work, nor should you. > encourage more energy-efficient industries. This can be done with much more reasonable methods. Don't forget that transportation is not the only significant source of carbon emissions. The best legislative efforts we can make are to support clean energy (nuclear, wind, solar).
    - logfromblammo 9y ago

Someone 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibili..., which, in the EU, led to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electronic_Equipment_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electroni..., which puts the responsibility on manufacturers, rather than sellers. That takes care of that Amazon problem. As always in the EU, the exact effect of these differs by country (EU directives describe goals, and leave the means to get there to member countries)

5555624 9y ago

Amazon wouldn't need a brick-and-mortar operation. Just log into your account and print out a postpaid shipping label. They keep your purchase history; so, you could look up the order and click a link next to the item. There are far more Post Offices than any shops they could make a deal with.

Teever 9y ago
Wait, does Amazon ship the junk back to China too and then China disassembles it and ships the elements back to their respective holes in the ground? It seems like a better idea would be to just have Amazon give you a voucher for the recycling fees in your local community.
- amichal 9y ago
  Most "Recycled" electronics are sent back to china at least in part Edit: summary at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China
  - Teever 9y ago
    Sure but it seems a little inefficient to send them individually is my point.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      You never ship them individually, you use containers. And it's probably quite efficient: the shipping boats have to return to China anyway to get more stuff.
      - jdietrich 9y ago
        It's basically free. There's far more stuff coming from China to the west than vice-versa. A ship can't travel empty, but needs to be ballasted with an appropriate weight of cargo. If there isn't enough booked cargo on the return leg to China, they'll make up the weight with scrap metal or rubble.
      - Teever 9y ago
        I'm referring to the shipping of the broken goods to amazon individually. That's the part I'm critical of. Sure, send them back to China, I don't care, it just seems silly that we would all just mail our broken junk back one piece at a time to AMazon who then puts it in a container and sends it to China. Better to take it to alocal recycling facility for them to send it en masse. Have Amazon give you a voucher to handle the recycling fee.
        icebraining 9y ago
        Trucks coming from the Amazon warehouse also have to come back. Still, Amazon just gifted me an item when I tried to return it since I ordered it by mistake (and I was honest on the form). I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to avoid recycling returns too.

dclowd9901 9y ago

Tax on gasoline like that would only affect the poorest of citizens. Charge it on shares of gasoline producing companies and car companies so their share holders scream at them to move to less carbon-y energy creation mechanisms.

isolli 9y ago
There is a solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_and_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_and_dividend
icebraining 9y ago
The end result would be the same, they would just pass the costs to the consumer.
jdavis703 9y ago
The poorest citizens don't own cars.
- gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
  It does depend on where you live. In US they probably do. In EU countries they probably don't.
- thomastjeffery 9y ago
  But they get their groceries from stores that deliver goods via trucks.
- walterstucco 9y ago
  Actually they are the only one owning them because they need them They live outside the cities where housing is more affordable but there's no public transport
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  Oh yes they do. They might have 240,000 miles on them, but poor people, like myself, have/need a vechicle. And poor people work on their own vechicles. If you do all the repairs on a vechicle, and don't have high insurance; driving a older vechicle is cost efficient, and a necessity for many poor people. I cringe when I hear about more gas taxes. Tax people on Income.

thomastjeffery 9y ago

> Also, I also think we should have a carbon recapture tax added to gasoline That can't work for any country that has "country". In the US, the vast majority of goods are delivered using trucks that burn diesel. You can't have a gas tax without a diesel tax. Everyone would just switch over. If you tax gas, you effectively tax everything, and that's not okay for any economy.

vkou 9y ago
> If you tax gas, you effectively tax everything, and that's not okay for any economy. Why? The purpose of the carbon tax is to capture the negative externality of carbon pollution, and to encourage more energy-efficient industries. Not all parts of the economy use equal amounts of energy, and we should encourage the energy-efficient ones. I burn carbon when I drive my car to work. I burn much less carbon when I take the bus to work. We want to encourage the latter - carbon taxes let the market do this encouragement. The alternative is doing so by government fiat.
- thomastjeffery 9y ago
  > I burn much less carbon when I take the bus to work. I understand that. It's the obvious reasoning behind a gas tax. My entire point is that there are also other effects. If gas prices raise significantly, then the price of everything - groceries, medication, clothing, cleaning supplies, solar panels, everything - raises, meaning simple things that everyone relies on suddenly become unaffordable to low-wage workers, so their employers suddenly need to raise profits to accommodate the price hike, and raise wages for the bulk of their employees, or (more likely) simply fail, resulting in a significant unemployment increase. You can't just magically fix climate change by putting the poor out of work, nor should you. > encourage more energy-efficient industries. This can be done with much more reasonable methods. Don't forget that transportation is not the only significant source of carbon emissions. The best legislative efforts we can make are to support clean energy (nuclear, wind, solar).
  - logfromblammo 9y ago