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Experiments with Matrix for the Purism Librem5, Starring Ubports and Nheko

119 points by rippsu 9y ago

Arathorn 9y ago
(author here: i’m waiting for someone to tell me how installing qt5.9 on ubports is actually a oneliner if you know what you’re doing... :D)
- rippsu 9y ago
  installing qt5.9 on ubports is actually a oneliner if you know what you’re doing
  - Arathorn 9y ago
    :D
- jcelerier 9y ago
  sed 's/\n/;/g' and tada, one liner
ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
Congrats to the Matrix team (mostly Matthew/Arathorn?) for this! This is a really cool proof of concept for making a native mobile client for Linux. One question, though: my understanding was that some of the work needed to use megolm/olm correctly and securely was in matrix-js-sdk (unless I read the audit wrong). That said, how much work would need to be done to current Qt/GTK SDKs to replicate this (I assume it's mostly key management stuff), and how would the team keep this in sync with any changes made to the JS SDK in the future? Alternatively, am I misunderstanding something fundamental? I've already backed Purism's Librem 5 campaign, and I think everyone else should too, if they care about a fully free handset. It can be found at https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ if you were looking for it.
- Arathorn 9y ago
  At the moment about 60% of the code required to do e2e encryption is in the main SDK layer (as it has to hook into all of the Matrix API stuff, client UI/UX and local storage), and 40% in libolm. This isn’t great as it makes porting the app code between platforms more work than it could be and risks bugs - but we have already ported it to ios and android, and kitsune is working at porting to libqmatrixclient and penguin42 is porting it to glib for use in libpurple. In future we’ll try to push more of this down into crossplatform library on top of libolm (libolmmatrix?) which can then have a slightly hairy API to call back to the main SDK to do HTTP and storage operations etc - but for now we’re trying to get it out of beta in the current architecture before we then go and refactor it all. So: in an practice a native Librem client would use libqmatrixclient or something similar, with the application layer E2E functionality handled by that library - but in future that could be factored out to simplify life for everyone. Another approach could be to use a sidecar process to proxy the traffic and offload all the E2E stuff (which we need for a shim for simple clients anyway - even curl etc). But nobody has yet stepped up to build this, plus integrating with UI is a bit of a pain (local popup notifs + local web interfade for key management?). It would be a superfun project for someone wanting to play with E2E though!
  - ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
    Thanks for the response. Seems like there's a lot of work to be done on refactoring, but I can appreciate that E2E stuff is still in beta. As for that last remark, perhaps it's a good GSoC proposal?
jjrh 9y ago
It's awesome to see they are so gung ho to get work started. Here's hoping the librem gets funded and things get on track on the hardware side.
ZenoArrow 9y ago
I really hope the Librem 5 meets its target (I'm a backer). I'd also hope that the fundraising deadline could be extended if it only needs a few more days to complete. Having a FLOSS phone platform, especially with a strong communication platform like Matrix at its core, is something that should ultimately do a lot of good for the continued growth of open source/free software.
- sexydefinesher 9y ago
  if they keep going at their current pace they will most likely make it.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    $821,660 / 35 days = $23,476 a day (on average) $23,476 * 25 days = $586,900 $821,660 + $586,900 = $1,408,560 Fundraising campaigns are rarely linear and often see an upsurge at the end, but it's still clear that the fundraising trajectory is slightly behind the $1,500,000 target at the moment.
teddyh 9y ago
Too bad that the Purism Libre5 won’t qualify for FSF’s RYF¹ certification². I’m sorry, I really don’t mean to come off as snarkily dismissive as this might appear. Let me try again. This project certainly seems to try to do their very best, and what they have achieved might be all that’s possible to achieve at the present time. I just wanted to, as politely as I might, note that there are those of us for this is a dealbreaker, and that we will rather go without than get the current good-enough product. (If there were none of us, there would be no commercial incentive for any company to keep improving in the right direction.) I really don’t mean to dismiss anyone’s effort; honestly. 1. https://www.fsf.org/ryf https://www.fsf.org/ryf 2. https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
- Arathorn 9y ago
  which bit disqualifies for RYF ooi? the need for a proprietary baseband module, even if it’s “external”?
  - teddyh 9y ago
    That information is in the second link I provided.
    - Arathorn 9y ago
      Oh, sorry - missed it in the FAQ. My understanding (which isn’t particularly well researched) is that any 3G or 4G packet data requires implementing algorithms (compression and error corection stuff) which are unfortunately encumbered with software patents, and cannot be implemented in a FOSS manner unless someone paid the licensing fees for everyone (similar to Cisco paying the H.264 patent fees for OpenH264), or the patent pool gets bored and relinquishes their patents.
      - craftyguy 9y ago
        When do the patents expire?
wink 9y ago
> TL;DR: If you love FOSS-friendly hardware and if you love Matrix, please preorder a Purism Librem5 Matrix-native smartphone, so we can fully bring native Matrix communication to both phones and desktop! Something about this header rubs me the wrong way. This is not "hey, throw us 10 bucks because $reason" (The Librem 5 seems to be 599$ and it's not from a company I moderately trust to ship a good product, on time) Call me cheap, but I've never bought a smart phone for more than 300 EUR, and they've all worked fine at the time (HTC Click, HTC Vision, (ok, the Kingzone wasn't great) and Nexus 5X (still 100% fine with it, right now).
creatonez 9y ago
I am very excited for this. I will buy a free software phone with Matrix as a first-class citizen in a heartbeat. Matrix and Purism seem to be putting a lot of effort into paving the way for truly free phones.

119 points by rippsu 9y ago

(author here: i’m waiting for someone to tell me how installing qt5.9 on ubports is actually a oneliner if you know what you’re doing... :D)

rippsu 9y ago
installing qt5.9 on ubports is actually a oneliner if you know what you’re doing
- Arathorn 9y ago
  :D
jcelerier 9y ago
sed 's/\n/;/g' and tada, one liner

ThatGeoGuy 9y ago

Congrats to the Matrix team (mostly Matthew/Arathorn?) for this! This is a really cool proof of concept for making a native mobile client for Linux. One question, though: my understanding was that some of the work needed to use megolm/olm correctly and securely was in matrix-js-sdk (unless I read the audit wrong). That said, how much work would need to be done to current Qt/GTK SDKs to replicate this (I assume it's mostly key management stuff), and how would the team keep this in sync with any changes made to the JS SDK in the future? Alternatively, am I misunderstanding something fundamental? I've already backed Purism's Librem 5 campaign, and I think everyone else should too, if they care about a fully free handset. It can be found at https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ if you were looking for it.

Arathorn 9y ago
At the moment about 60% of the code required to do e2e encryption is in the main SDK layer (as it has to hook into all of the Matrix API stuff, client UI/UX and local storage), and 40% in libolm. This isn’t great as it makes porting the app code between platforms more work than it could be and risks bugs - but we have already ported it to ios and android, and kitsune is working at porting to libqmatrixclient and penguin42 is porting it to glib for use in libpurple. In future we’ll try to push more of this down into crossplatform library on top of libolm (libolmmatrix?) which can then have a slightly hairy API to call back to the main SDK to do HTTP and storage operations etc - but for now we’re trying to get it out of beta in the current architecture before we then go and refactor it all. So: in an practice a native Librem client would use libqmatrixclient or something similar, with the application layer E2E functionality handled by that library - but in future that could be factored out to simplify life for everyone. Another approach could be to use a sidecar process to proxy the traffic and offload all the E2E stuff (which we need for a shim for simple clients anyway - even curl etc). But nobody has yet stepped up to build this, plus integrating with UI is a bit of a pain (local popup notifs + local web interfade for key management?). It would be a superfun project for someone wanting to play with E2E though!
- ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
  Thanks for the response. Seems like there's a lot of work to be done on refactoring, but I can appreciate that E2E stuff is still in beta. As for that last remark, perhaps it's a good GSoC proposal?

jjrh 9y ago

It's awesome to see they are so gung ho to get work started. Here's hoping the librem gets funded and things get on track on the hardware side.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

I really hope the Librem 5 meets its target (I'm a backer). I'd also hope that the fundraising deadline could be extended if it only needs a few more days to complete. Having a FLOSS phone platform, especially with a strong communication platform like Matrix at its core, is something that should ultimately do a lot of good for the continued growth of open source/free software.

sexydefinesher 9y ago
if they keep going at their current pace they will most likely make it.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  $821,660 / 35 days = $23,476 a day (on average) $23,476 * 25 days = $586,900 $821,660 + $586,900 = $1,408,560 Fundraising campaigns are rarely linear and often see an upsurge at the end, but it's still clear that the fundraising trajectory is slightly behind the $1,500,000 target at the moment.

teddyh 9y ago

Too bad that the Purism Libre5 won’t qualify for FSF’s RYF¹ certification². I’m sorry, I really don’t mean to come off as snarkily dismissive as this might appear. Let me try again. This project certainly seems to try to do their very best, and what they have achieved might be all that’s possible to achieve at the present time. I just wanted to, as politely as I might, note that there are those of us for this is a dealbreaker, and that we will rather go without than get the current good-enough product. (If there were none of us, there would be no commercial incentive for any company to keep improving in the right direction.) I really don’t mean to dismiss anyone’s effort; honestly. 1. https://www.fsf.org/ryf https://www.fsf.org/ryf 2. https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Arathorn 9y ago
which bit disqualifies for RYF ooi? the need for a proprietary baseband module, even if it’s “external”?
- teddyh 9y ago
  That information is in the second link I provided.
  - Arathorn 9y ago
    Oh, sorry - missed it in the FAQ. My understanding (which isn’t particularly well researched) is that any 3G or 4G packet data requires implementing algorithms (compression and error corection stuff) which are unfortunately encumbered with software patents, and cannot be implemented in a FOSS manner unless someone paid the licensing fees for everyone (similar to Cisco paying the H.264 patent fees for OpenH264), or the patent pool gets bored and relinquishes their patents.
    - craftyguy 9y ago
      When do the patents expire?

wink 9y ago

> TL;DR: If you love FOSS-friendly hardware and if you love Matrix, please preorder a Purism Librem5 Matrix-native smartphone, so we can fully bring native Matrix communication to both phones and desktop! Something about this header rubs me the wrong way. This is not "hey, throw us 10 bucks because $reason" (The Librem 5 seems to be 599$ and it's not from a company I moderately trust to ship a good product, on time) Call me cheap, but I've never bought a smart phone for more than 300 EUR, and they've all worked fine at the time (HTC Click, HTC Vision, (ok, the Kingzone wasn't great) and Nexus 5X (still 100% fine with it, right now).

creatonez 9y ago

I am very excited for this. I will buy a free software phone with Matrix as a first-class citizen in a heartbeat. Matrix and Purism seem to be putting a lot of effort into paving the way for truly free phones.