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The battle is very much not over. Famine remains a major issue in many places all over the world. http://www.worldhunger.org/2015-world-hunger-and-poverty-fact

by GuiA 9y ago

The battle is very much not over. Famine remains a major issue in many places all over the world. http://www.worldhunger.org/2015-world-hunger-and-poverty-facts-and-statistics/ http://www.worldhunger.org/2015-world-hunger-and-poverty-fac...

kbutler 9y ago
Famine is caused by poor distribution, not poor production. From your link: "The world produces enough food to feed everyone." Further: "For the world as a whole, per capita food availability has risen from about 2220 kcal/person/day in the early 1960s to 2790 kcal/person/day in 2006-08, while developing countries even recorded a leap from 1850 kcal/person/day to over 2640 kcal/person/day."
- GuiA 9y ago
  The quote from the post I replied to mentions “the battle to feed humanity”. Distribution is very much part of that battle; otherwise it could only be considered solved in the purest theoretical sense.
  - kbutler 9y ago
    Yeah, and you can also talk about specific nutrient needs, and really the obesity epidemic is also a part of the battle to feed humanity. But Ehrlich wasn't talking about any of that. He was specifically saying there was no way we could produce enough food to feed the population of the world in the 1970s, and we'd have to drastically curtail population to survive. "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970's the world will undergo famines—hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate, although many lives could be saved through dramatic programs to "stretch" the carrying capacity of the earth by increasing food production. But these programs will only provide a stay of execution unless they are accompanied by determined and successful efforts at population control. Population control is the conscious regulation of the numbers of human beings to meet the needs, not just of individual families, but of society as a whole."
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  It's not even that though -- we can distribute, very well. We can send grain in container ships, do air drops, land trains, all sorts. We can process, preserve, etc. to avoid spoiling. None of that is the problem that causes famine. We don't want to feed people who aren't paying; or people in power don't see it as useful. It's not a practical problem it's all political, surely?
  - roel_v 9y ago
    "a distribution problem" is not a problem of how to physically transport something over a distance. A "distribution problem" in economic terms is how good are allocated to those who want it, or rather, how this allocation fails. It fails, for example, in places where there is no or insufficient government or rule of law. So the GP was already saying what you are, but in a more nuanced (and better) way. Saying 'it's all political' is just saying 'it's all the fat cat's fault'. But it's much more subtle than that; for example, endemic corruption also causes economic misallocation, and it's a cultural problem, not a 'political' one per se.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Hmm, the parent said: >"Famine is caused by poor [food] distribution, not poor production."< The thread was specifically about food surplus, the GP & parent comments both specify it. There's no reason to think either had the definition you use in mind. Surely that's "allocation"; I don't find your definition apparent -- unqualified "distribution" primarily in economics sources (I checked Economist, Investopedia, couple of other s) refers to "income distribution". Given how blunt and lacking in nuance you found my post it's interesting you deliberately miscast "politics" as limited in scope to the actions of rich capitalists. Saying "it's political" means it's down to motive and not ability. We can distribute food to everyone, people at some level "choose" not to. Do you disagree?
Synaesthesia 9y ago
A major problem as far as I can see is malnutrition not undernutrition, poor people aren’t eating enough vegetables, protein and other important nutrients and mostly filling up on grain.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Rich people (almost everyone in Western society) are being conned in to eating low quality, unhealthy foods by people with massive advertising budgets who don't have to pick up the healthcare bills.

by GuiA 9y ago

kbutler 9y ago

Famine is caused by poor distribution, not poor production. From your link: "The world produces enough food to feed everyone." Further: "For the world as a whole, per capita food availability has risen from about 2220 kcal/person/day in the early 1960s to 2790 kcal/person/day in 2006-08, while developing countries even recorded a leap from 1850 kcal/person/day to over 2640 kcal/person/day."

GuiA 9y ago
The quote from the post I replied to mentions “the battle to feed humanity”. Distribution is very much part of that battle; otherwise it could only be considered solved in the purest theoretical sense.
- kbutler 9y ago
  Yeah, and you can also talk about specific nutrient needs, and really the obesity epidemic is also a part of the battle to feed humanity. But Ehrlich wasn't talking about any of that. He was specifically saying there was no way we could produce enough food to feed the population of the world in the 1970s, and we'd have to drastically curtail population to survive. "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970's the world will undergo famines—hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate, although many lives could be saved through dramatic programs to "stretch" the carrying capacity of the earth by increasing food production. But these programs will only provide a stay of execution unless they are accompanied by determined and successful efforts at population control. Population control is the conscious regulation of the numbers of human beings to meet the needs, not just of individual families, but of society as a whole."
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
It's not even that though -- we can distribute, very well. We can send grain in container ships, do air drops, land trains, all sorts. We can process, preserve, etc. to avoid spoiling. None of that is the problem that causes famine. We don't want to feed people who aren't paying; or people in power don't see it as useful. It's not a practical problem it's all political, surely?
- roel_v 9y ago
  "a distribution problem" is not a problem of how to physically transport something over a distance. A "distribution problem" in economic terms is how good are allocated to those who want it, or rather, how this allocation fails. It fails, for example, in places where there is no or insufficient government or rule of law. So the GP was already saying what you are, but in a more nuanced (and better) way. Saying 'it's all political' is just saying 'it's all the fat cat's fault'. But it's much more subtle than that; for example, endemic corruption also causes economic misallocation, and it's a cultural problem, not a 'political' one per se.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Hmm, the parent said: >"Famine is caused by poor [food] distribution, not poor production."< The thread was specifically about food surplus, the GP & parent comments both specify it. There's no reason to think either had the definition you use in mind. Surely that's "allocation"; I don't find your definition apparent -- unqualified "distribution" primarily in economics sources (I checked Economist, Investopedia, couple of other s) refers to "income distribution". Given how blunt and lacking in nuance you found my post it's interesting you deliberately miscast "politics" as limited in scope to the actions of rich capitalists. Saying "it's political" means it's down to motive and not ability. We can distribute food to everyone, people at some level "choose" not to. Do you disagree?

Synaesthesia 9y ago

A major problem as far as I can see is malnutrition not undernutrition, poor people aren’t eating enough vegetables, protein and other important nutrients and mostly filling up on grain.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Rich people (almost everyone in Western society) are being conned in to eating low quality, unhealthy foods by people with massive advertising budgets who don't have to pick up the healthcare bills.