6 ms·

I don't know, I think it's fair to say that computing is a field where really smart, but shy, individuals can participate and excel, compared to many other fiel

by qjz 16y ago

I don't know, I think it's fair to say that computing is a field where really smart, but shy, individuals can participate and excel, compared to many other fields of work. That doesn't mean that everyone in computing fits that description, but it does suggest this group will be overrepresented. He goes on to say, "Every developer I’ve ever worked with, for instance, is probably more qualified to be a member of Congress than most of the members of Congress we have now." I could say the same about almost everyone I've ever known. The problem is that politics isn't appealing to the type of individuals we consider exemplary, regardless of background. Just look at local politics, where you'll often find aimless drifters or self-serving candidates on the ballot among others who understand that government is complicated machine that needs to be run competently for everyone's benefit. But back on topic, how many of your school board or city council members are also software developers? My guess is few or none, because they just aren't interested or feel that it's too challenging to promote logical solutions in an environment of irrational rivalry.

hugh3 16y ago
What did the socially malformed do before computers were invented, anyway? (And I don't mean the Erdoses of the world, I mean the socially-malformed non-geniuses.) Or has the invention of computers increased the number of socially malformed people out there?
- philwelch 16y ago
  Read books. Tinkered with machines.
  - bitwize 16y ago
    Became amateur scientists. Sherlock Holmes is pretty archetypal of a hyper-focused Asperger's type; the recent 2009 movie with Tony Stark in it probably does a better job than most film adaptations of conveying these aspects of his character.
    - francoisdevlin 16y ago
      "recent 2009 movie with Robert Downey Jr" Granted, I knew exactly who you meant :)
      - bitwize 16y ago
        I know his real name. I was using Tony Stark as a metonym, much as Stuart Smalley is used for Al Franken. :)
    - rue 16y ago
      Continuing off-topic, the ultimate Holmes was portrayed by Jeremy Brett in the several TV series based on the novels and short stories. I do not think they are well-known in the U.S. so I would recommend checking them out if interested in things holmesian.
- GFischer 16y ago
  Become monks? (or other religious professions). I can't find studies offhand, but I recall the Jesuits attracted the more intellectually minded, while the more socially outcast could try for hermits.
api 16y ago
Hmm... let's see... Politics is a field that is underpaid and consists of mainly putting out fires, being beat on the head by numerous (often very slimy) special interests, trying to convince fickle people to vote for you, and being blamed for everything that's wrong and ignored when things go right. Count me in!
- axod 16y ago
  The pay is a large issue. In the UK, being a Member of Parliament, you get around £65k. That doesn't compare well to business jobs of similar responsibility etc. Even the prime minister is on less pay than several civil servants which is ridiculous. No wonder we have so many people in government from wealthy families. I don't remember quite where it was but I read that somewhere in Asia the government/MPs get paid a million or so, which results in better people, and obviously less corruption/fiddling accounts etc.
  - api 16y ago
    Wow... that's worse than I thought. I've often wondered if part of the problem with mismanagement and corruption in government is that politicians are actually underpaid. Anyone really good wants to go into business or marketing, fields that demand similar skills but that pay way better. Corruption becomes a problem because it's the only way to get a raise...
    - evilduck 16y ago
      Not necessarily just politicians, but government workers in general. Low level people like janitors are generally overcompensated compared to their peers, but higher positions like programmers, scientists, analysts, managers, etc, typically make far less than their industry counterparts. I personally know a few government scientists who make about 40% of their industry peers. Because of that, I think you see a lot of corruption, indifference, or laziness due to workers "compensating" for the pay differences. It certainly doesn't help morale.
  - cjoh 16y ago
    170k in US.
Aaronontheweb 16y ago
"I don't know, I think it's fair to say that computing is a field where really smart, but shy, individuals can participate and excel, compared to many other fields of work. " I'd argue that the IQ distribution amongst programmers is no different than that of the general population - there are just more people who mistakenly believe that they're smarter because they can throw together spaghetti code in a text editor. As for this stereotype about social intelligence being an issue with most programmers - I call b.s. on that too. There are plenty of programmers who know how to socialize and how to relate to people - they're just not the ones portrayed in mass media.
- zephyrfalcon 16y ago
  "I'd argue that the IQ distribution amongst programmers is no different than that of the general population - there are just more people who mistakenly believe that they're smarter because they can throw together spaghetti code in a text editor." That would imply that the average IQ of programmers is 100. Seems unlikely, I do think it attracts people smarter than average (at least in times when programming is not "popular" because big $$$ are promised). I do agree that some programmers have an overinflated sense of intelligence and/or self-importance, though. But there are probably job types where this is much worse...
  - Aaronontheweb 16y ago
    Why would it be unlikely? Is it just because programmers have more college degrees than average? Isn't that more a measure of opportunity and background than it is of ability? In fact, don't you need to come from a relatively affluent background (read: can afford computers and resources needed for development) to even be exposed to programming? I'm not trying to incite anything, but having worked in a couple of very different roles in my short career thus far, development being one of them, the proportion of mediocre programmers seems empirically equal to the proportion of medicore marketers, sales people, and so forth. Programmers can do special things, but the mere act of programming itself doesn't make us special, better than average, or superior to anybody else. Programmer bigotry goes both ways.

by qjz 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

What did the socially malformed do before computers were invented, anyway? (And I don't mean the Erdoses of the world, I mean the socially-malformed non-geniuses.) Or has the invention of computers increased the number of socially malformed people out there?

philwelch 16y ago
Read books. Tinkered with machines.
- bitwize 16y ago
  Became amateur scientists. Sherlock Holmes is pretty archetypal of a hyper-focused Asperger's type; the recent 2009 movie with Tony Stark in it probably does a better job than most film adaptations of conveying these aspects of his character.
  - francoisdevlin 16y ago
    "recent 2009 movie with Robert Downey Jr" Granted, I knew exactly who you meant :)
    - bitwize 16y ago
      I know his real name. I was using Tony Stark as a metonym, much as Stuart Smalley is used for Al Franken. :)
  - rue 16y ago
    Continuing off-topic, the ultimate Holmes was portrayed by Jeremy Brett in the several TV series based on the novels and short stories. I do not think they are well-known in the U.S. so I would recommend checking them out if interested in things holmesian.
GFischer 16y ago
Become monks? (or other religious professions). I can't find studies offhand, but I recall the Jesuits attracted the more intellectually minded, while the more socially outcast could try for hermits.

api 16y ago

Hmm... let's see... Politics is a field that is underpaid and consists of mainly putting out fires, being beat on the head by numerous (often very slimy) special interests, trying to convince fickle people to vote for you, and being blamed for everything that's wrong and ignored when things go right. Count me in!

axod 16y ago
The pay is a large issue. In the UK, being a Member of Parliament, you get around £65k. That doesn't compare well to business jobs of similar responsibility etc. Even the prime minister is on less pay than several civil servants which is ridiculous. No wonder we have so many people in government from wealthy families. I don't remember quite where it was but I read that somewhere in Asia the government/MPs get paid a million or so, which results in better people, and obviously less corruption/fiddling accounts etc.
- api 16y ago
  Wow... that's worse than I thought. I've often wondered if part of the problem with mismanagement and corruption in government is that politicians are actually underpaid. Anyone really good wants to go into business or marketing, fields that demand similar skills but that pay way better. Corruption becomes a problem because it's the only way to get a raise...
  - evilduck 16y ago
    Not necessarily just politicians, but government workers in general. Low level people like janitors are generally overcompensated compared to their peers, but higher positions like programmers, scientists, analysts, managers, etc, typically make far less than their industry counterparts. I personally know a few government scientists who make about 40% of their industry peers. Because of that, I think you see a lot of corruption, indifference, or laziness due to workers "compensating" for the pay differences. It certainly doesn't help morale.
- cjoh 16y ago
  170k in US.

Aaronontheweb 16y ago

"I don't know, I think it's fair to say that computing is a field where really smart, but shy, individuals can participate and excel, compared to many other fields of work. " I'd argue that the IQ distribution amongst programmers is no different than that of the general population - there are just more people who mistakenly believe that they're smarter because they can throw together spaghetti code in a text editor. As for this stereotype about social intelligence being an issue with most programmers - I call b.s. on that too. There are plenty of programmers who know how to socialize and how to relate to people - they're just not the ones portrayed in mass media.

zephyrfalcon 16y ago
"I'd argue that the IQ distribution amongst programmers is no different than that of the general population - there are just more people who mistakenly believe that they're smarter because they can throw together spaghetti code in a text editor." That would imply that the average IQ of programmers is 100. Seems unlikely, I do think it attracts people smarter than average (at least in times when programming is not "popular" because big $$$ are promised). I do agree that some programmers have an overinflated sense of intelligence and/or self-importance, though. But there are probably job types where this is much worse...
- Aaronontheweb 16y ago
  Why would it be unlikely? Is it just because programmers have more college degrees than average? Isn't that more a measure of opportunity and background than it is of ability? In fact, don't you need to come from a relatively affluent background (read: can afford computers and resources needed for development) to even be exposed to programming? I'm not trying to incite anything, but having worked in a couple of very different roles in my short career thus far, development being one of them, the proportion of mediocre programmers seems empirically equal to the proportion of medicore marketers, sales people, and so forth. Programmers can do special things, but the mere act of programming itself doesn't make us special, better than average, or superior to anybody else. Programmer bigotry goes both ways.