7 ms·

I read the headline and in my mind said "probably somewhere outside North America". Looks like I was right. It's interesting how there seems to be no demand, o

by nikanj 9y ago

I read the headline and in my mind said "probably somewhere outside North America". Looks like I was right. It's interesting how there seems to be no demand, or at least no supply, for vehicles like this in US/Canada. This would be the perfect commuter vehicle for our family.

coliveira 9y ago
I would be interested in a car like this for commuting. Unfortunately the rule in US is to restrict transportation options toward traditional automobiles.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > I would be interested in a car like this for commuting. Unfortunately the rule in US is to restrict transportation options toward traditional automobiles. What about this is not a traditional automobile? It's kinda small, but what "rule" "restricts" you from treating it as an automobile? It's basically an electric smart car.
  - drawnwren 9y ago
    US vehicle import laws are incredibly arcane. Ask any tuner who has considered importing a Japanese car. There is a huge amount of money involved in making a car safe for the US and having the appropriate tests administered.
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      Right, but coliveira didn't mention import. I for one would love to own a Hilux instead of a Tacoma, but if Toyota made a Hilux in NA then there would be no rule that restricts you from it. I agree that the legal standards for occupant safety are far too stringent, I feel like occupant safety should be an optional feature (especially for people who drive in conditions where you're either guaranteed to die no matter what, or guaranteed not to collide).
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      Yes, exactly. As a matter of fact they aren't just arcane, but often outright bad. For all the grand standing and virtue signaling our gov does around the world on the issue of free trade, we sometimes turn around and impose some unusually bad or even draconian laws against it, which doesn't make the situation any better. Just one example, because of the Chicken Tax there is a 25% tariff on light trucks. These laws extend not just to autos and auto parts, but to things like cheese, shoes, etc. Because of that + IIHS safety requirements, you see the 4-star Aus. ANCAP rated Hiace's commonly all over the world, except in the USA. Honestly, I would be pretty interested in if someone has estimated lives saved over cost Of safety features in vehicles. One example might be b/w the likes of a Hiace and an NV cargo van, or a Tacoma vs a Hilux. Divide that by cost across industry adoption of higher safety standards and see what it is per life or limb saved. I would imagine it is a relatively high, expensive fruit on the tree of saving lives.
loeg 9y ago
Probably built to unacceptably low safety standards for the US market, at lower labor prices and/or import tariffs than a car built for the US market. I'm not saying they couldn't build a similar car for far less than $35k, but it would probably cost more than $5k. Either way: nothing about this is a model 3 competitor. They're in entirely different segments.
- abpavel 9y ago
  Europe is full of sub-$9K models like Toyota Aygo, which has 4 stars on NCAP. So doesn't look like unacceptable safety standards are the reason.
  - swsieber 9y ago
    To paint with broad strokes: I'd blame the demand on Europe's higher population density and better public transit - there's not nearly as much "need" (demand?) for vehicles that can make long, sustained trips.
    - thijsc 9y ago
      I own one and it is suitable for longer trips. Regularly drive for 90 minutes with it. It’s only real downside is that luggage space is very limited.
    - Zenst 9y ago
      I'd concur, this and more a leaning towards smaller cars, again due to population densities and proximity to resources (shops etc). Which may also explain less pickup trucks, which would be more useful in a more spread out resource/population as would allow large load transportation. Which given distance and time, would make sense. Which equally allows any bulk material resource supplier more able to provide delivery as cost effective for them, again due to population density. After all, if you have a spread out customer base of equal numbers then it may make more sense to not offer delivery, leave that to the customer and offset that with offering cheaper product price. Then any delivery option on offer will be custom and more expensive as would be farmed out, but still an option. So the tendency to go for a pickup truck, increases for the populus in more spread out area's. But equally can't overlook the government incentives offered in many European countries and those have been IMHO pretty aggressive, making EV's a very tempting option for consumers. Though, gas/petrol/diesel is more expensive in Europe and does not have the governmental subsidies many other countries offer and is equally very taxed. Again making EV's, very much cost effective for so many. Some places even offer free charging, if not subsidised charging. So factoring is the demand for smaller vehicles needing to go shorter distances and those incentives/subsidies, then you can see why EV's in Europe garnering much traction. I almost forgot congestion charges, EV's avoid those and they can add up in some cities/area's (thinking London for example).
twblalock 9y ago
I know a few Americans who would buy a car like this, but let's not kid ourselves -- it would not sell very well here. Most Americans prefer larger cars. I drive a pretty small car, but I don't think I would get one of these, either. If I got t-boned by a Chevy Tahoe, there would be no chance of survival.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  A car like this should probably be compared (and favorably so) to a scooter/motorbike for commuting. It's better when it rains and it's certainly better in the Tahoe incident. You can drop off a kid at school in it, and so on. The problem now being that "$5k" isn't very disruptive in the moped segment of commuter vehicles.
grecy 9y ago
I would not be so sure, there are a lot of Smart cars getting around. I talked to an owner once, who was towing a trailer. With the trailer he was only getting 50mpg, normally ~70.
sf_rob 9y ago
Elio Motors is trying to avoid the car regulations by releasing an enclosed trike which is legally a motorcycle in most (all?) states. Unfortunately, they have had major delays and funding issues. Their vehicle is an 84MPG diesel not an EV, but I wonder if an EV producer would consider a similar strategy.
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  Looks like they're just building a Reliant Robin [1] with the wheels reversed (so 2 in front 1 rear). Unless you're desperate to save on tax (3 wheelers are taxed as motorcycle rates) I don't see the appeal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
  - micheljones 9y ago
    Tadpole configuration (2 wheels in front) is much more stable and less prone to tipping over.

by nikanj 9y ago

coliveira 9y ago

I would be interested in a car like this for commuting. Unfortunately the rule in US is to restrict transportation options toward traditional automobiles.

microcolonel 9y ago
> I would be interested in a car like this for commuting. Unfortunately the rule in US is to restrict transportation options toward traditional automobiles. What about this is not a traditional automobile? It's kinda small, but what "rule" "restricts" you from treating it as an automobile? It's basically an electric smart car.
- drawnwren 9y ago
  US vehicle import laws are incredibly arcane. Ask any tuner who has considered importing a Japanese car. There is a huge amount of money involved in making a car safe for the US and having the appropriate tests administered.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    Right, but coliveira didn't mention import. I for one would love to own a Hilux instead of a Tacoma, but if Toyota made a Hilux in NA then there would be no rule that restricts you from it. I agree that the legal standards for occupant safety are far too stringent, I feel like occupant safety should be an optional feature (especially for people who drive in conditions where you're either guaranteed to die no matter what, or guaranteed not to collide).
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Yes, exactly. As a matter of fact they aren't just arcane, but often outright bad. For all the grand standing and virtue signaling our gov does around the world on the issue of free trade, we sometimes turn around and impose some unusually bad or even draconian laws against it, which doesn't make the situation any better. Just one example, because of the Chicken Tax there is a 25% tariff on light trucks. These laws extend not just to autos and auto parts, but to things like cheese, shoes, etc. Because of that + IIHS safety requirements, you see the 4-star Aus. ANCAP rated Hiace's commonly all over the world, except in the USA. Honestly, I would be pretty interested in if someone has estimated lives saved over cost Of safety features in vehicles. One example might be b/w the likes of a Hiace and an NV cargo van, or a Tacoma vs a Hilux. Divide that by cost across industry adoption of higher safety standards and see what it is per life or limb saved. I would imagine it is a relatively high, expensive fruit on the tree of saving lives.

loeg 9y ago

Probably built to unacceptably low safety standards for the US market, at lower labor prices and/or import tariffs than a car built for the US market. I'm not saying they couldn't build a similar car for far less than $35k, but it would probably cost more than $5k. Either way: nothing about this is a model 3 competitor. They're in entirely different segments.

abpavel 9y ago
Europe is full of sub-$9K models like Toyota Aygo, which has 4 stars on NCAP. So doesn't look like unacceptable safety standards are the reason.
- swsieber 9y ago
  To paint with broad strokes: I'd blame the demand on Europe's higher population density and better public transit - there's not nearly as much "need" (demand?) for vehicles that can make long, sustained trips.
  - thijsc 9y ago
    I own one and it is suitable for longer trips. Regularly drive for 90 minutes with it. It’s only real downside is that luggage space is very limited.
  - Zenst 9y ago
    I'd concur, this and more a leaning towards smaller cars, again due to population densities and proximity to resources (shops etc). Which may also explain less pickup trucks, which would be more useful in a more spread out resource/population as would allow large load transportation. Which given distance and time, would make sense. Which equally allows any bulk material resource supplier more able to provide delivery as cost effective for them, again due to population density. After all, if you have a spread out customer base of equal numbers then it may make more sense to not offer delivery, leave that to the customer and offset that with offering cheaper product price. Then any delivery option on offer will be custom and more expensive as would be farmed out, but still an option. So the tendency to go for a pickup truck, increases for the populus in more spread out area's. But equally can't overlook the government incentives offered in many European countries and those have been IMHO pretty aggressive, making EV's a very tempting option for consumers. Though, gas/petrol/diesel is more expensive in Europe and does not have the governmental subsidies many other countries offer and is equally very taxed. Again making EV's, very much cost effective for so many. Some places even offer free charging, if not subsidised charging. So factoring is the demand for smaller vehicles needing to go shorter distances and those incentives/subsidies, then you can see why EV's in Europe garnering much traction. I almost forgot congestion charges, EV's avoid those and they can add up in some cities/area's (thinking London for example).

twblalock 9y ago

I know a few Americans who would buy a car like this, but let's not kid ourselves -- it would not sell very well here. Most Americans prefer larger cars. I drive a pretty small car, but I don't think I would get one of these, either. If I got t-boned by a Chevy Tahoe, there would be no chance of survival.

alkonaut 9y ago
A car like this should probably be compared (and favorably so) to a scooter/motorbike for commuting. It's better when it rains and it's certainly better in the Tahoe incident. You can drop off a kid at school in it, and so on. The problem now being that "$5k" isn't very disruptive in the moped segment of commuter vehicles.

grecy 9y ago

I would not be so sure, there are a lot of Smart cars getting around. I talked to an owner once, who was towing a trailer. With the trailer he was only getting 50mpg, normally ~70.

sf_rob 9y ago

Elio Motors is trying to avoid the car regulations by releasing an enclosed trike which is legally a motorcycle in most (all?) states. Unfortunately, they have had major delays and funding issues. Their vehicle is an 84MPG diesel not an EV, but I wonder if an EV producer would consider a similar strategy.

k-mcgrady 9y ago
Looks like they're just building a Reliant Robin [1] with the wheels reversed (so 2 in front 1 rear). Unless you're desperate to save on tax (3 wheelers are taxed as motorcycle rates) I don't see the appeal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
- micheljones 9y ago
  Tadpole configuration (2 wheels in front) is much more stable and less prone to tipping over.