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U.S. does not believe Cuba is behind sonic attacks on American diplomats
- QAPereo 9y agoLet the mutual face-saving begin!... in other words. I’m still siding with microwaves in any case.
- dfischer 9y agoThis is one of the most bizarre developments I've witnessed in my life. If it's an attack, it's an entirely new method as far as I understand. Are there any credible, highly possible theories on how this is happening or is it 100% speculation still?
- res0nat0r 9y agoI'm not sure of anything definitive, but a more credible explanation is that it is some type of sonic monitoring trying to spy upon diplomats via laser microphone or something such, which then happened to actually hurt people.
- booleandilemma 9y agoIf this is true, why does the count of injured diplomats keep rising? Can’t they just shut the malfunctioning devices off? ...boosting the number of Americans affected this “sonic device” to 25 from 21, with reports of cases occurring in the last several weeks, according to two sources.
- UnoriginalGuy 9y agoIf we're going to speculate, one could speculate that it was an anti-spying device which inadvertently caused these issues. If you want privacy you can either try to build isolated structures or rooms, or you can try to overwhelm the listener with noise. The US has employed both techniques previously. What if they were trialing a new defensive (anti-spying) technology that went wrong? The US government has certainly gone strangely quiet on this incident.
- zitterbewegung 9y agoIf it was a laser microphone (or any microphone that used EM energy to monitor someone) it would require so much energy that you would not only melt whatever you pointed it at but also probably break it.
- wnkrshm 9y agoWhy, you only need to measure distance precisely to get the vibrations of a surface which is totally possible with a laser. Laser microphones do exist.
- wavefunction 9y agoThey do exist but the point raised is that for the laser microphone to induce the effects reported the laser would have to contain enough energy such that the laser would instead be so powerful that it vaporized any glass surface it was pointed at and overheat the laser source.
- Florin_Andrei 9y agoSeems like 99% sure this was not the intended outcome of whatever was originally done in that general region by whomever entity was the original author.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- einrealist 9y agoIf it is an attack, the question is 'why?'. It does not make sense. There is not much to gain. I wouldnt be surprised if this is some sort of self-inflicted infection or poisoning issue.
- jessaustin 9y agoIf one wished to have some degree of control over USA diplomats, one could send them a secret message saying "I will do something bad in Cuba; my password is XYZ". Then later, one could send them demands with the same password. The State Department is probably more susceptible to this sort of coercion than e.g. the "Defense" Department.
- BartSaM 9y agoTo screw relations between Cuba and US for example.
- taheca 9y agoWhy? because whoever is doing it sees the opportunity. Our state department and government are weak right now. They are understaffed, and the chances of serious investigation/prevention on this don't seem high. Why, if you could test out a brand new technology AND eliminate some key foreign service officers from your main competitor geopolitically, why wouldn't you? This is a crime of opportunity.
- einrealist 9y agoNo, it does not make sense because personnel can be replaced and security can be increased. There is no lasting win to be gained.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> If it is an attack, the question is 'why?'. To sour US-Cuban relations. Russia, Venezuela, China, and some others could plausibly be interested in doing it for that reason.
- 9y ago
- Iv 9y agoMy money is on some stupid miscommunication between services. Someone is operating a secret microwave link that they won't shut down because information/instructions have not circulated correctly.
- modzu 9y agoright? has everyone forgotten occam's razor??
- spurcell93 9y agoMore appropriately, Hanlon's Razor. (To be an internet pedant)
- modzu 9y ago:thumbsup:
- Vadoff 9y agoShould be pretty easy to prove if these sonic attacks are real + when they happen with the assistance of a device that can record sound. A simple laptop would probably suffice.
- kingnothing 9y agoRelevant Snopes article: http://www.snopes.com/do-sonic-weapons-explain-the-health-diplomats-cuba/ http://www.snopes.com/do-sonic-weapons-explain-the-health-di...
- deathhand 9y ago>trust by verify Snopes has been around as long as I have been on the internet. Their DNS whois is protected. Who are they? The links/sources in this article don't really prove that Sonic weapons are ineffective. They go back to non-weapons research.(the US government has created such weapons have been proven effective[1]) I want to trust but I cannot verify that their claims are true(that these claims are false) [1] https://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-lrad-sound-cannon-5860592 https://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-lrad-sound-cannon-5860592
- losteric 9y ago> Snopes has been around as long as I have been on the internet. Their DNS whois is protected. Who are they? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes.com
- EvanAnderson 9y agoWIRED published an article about Snopes (mainly focusing on conflict between the founders) just a few days ago: https://www.wired.com/story/snopes-and-the-search-for-facts-in-a-post-fact-world/ https://www.wired.com/story/snopes-and-the-search-for-facts-...
- deathhand 9y agoThank you! I never knew.
- yasp 9y ago> who are they? https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-dai... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4042194/Facebook-fact-checker-arbitrate-fake-news-accused-defrauding-website-pay-prostitutes-staff-includes-escort-porn-star-Vice-Vixen-domme.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4042194/Facebook-fac...
- notyourday 9y agoMust be ze evilz Russianz.
- RivieraKid 9y ago*the
- jessaustin 9y agoRight, because "ze" is the article for Germans!
- ComputerGuru 9y agoI'm decidedly _not_ a conspiracist (being a firm believer in Occam's razor and all), but this does lend credence to some of the "it was a friendly operation gone wrong" and "we already know who did it but have our reasons not to say anything" lines of thought.
- jmcgough 9y agoI think something like this is one of the more plausible explanations... wonder why they're removing embassy staff if they know who did it then. If it's a friendly party, couldn't they just get them to stop? Or maybe it was Cubans spying on us, they stopped after we confronted them, and reducing embassy staff is our way of reducing danger and also letting them know we don't appreciate what they did.
- colordrops 9y agoWhat do you think the purpose of Occam's razor is? Sometimes conspiracy _is_ the most simple and consistent explanation.
- eridius 9y agoSometimes, but in most cases it's not.
- colordrops 9y agoThat's a pretty meaningless statement. In most cases of what? Nuclear phenomena? Sure, there is probably no conspiracy to manipulate the laws of physics. But international relations? Are you kidding? Conspiracy is as likely as any other explanation in that case, and shouldn't be discounted as nutjob territory.
- eridius 9y agoConspiracy by whom, for what benefit?
- anonymfus 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_in_Space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_in_Space
- jamisteven 9y agoProlly some old relic of a spy device thats effected by new cell tech. Hmmm
- jug 9y agoInteresting. Seems to indirectly confirm the government somewhere believes the attacks happened / are happening. They have refrained to comment that, as far as I know.
- timthelion 9y agoHas anyone considered that this attack could have been done by the large and extreme group of anti-comunist Cubans in order to damage closer relationships between communist Cuba and the US? Cuban exiles have attacked Cuba before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
- timthelion 9y agoI think that the down-votes with no actual counterarguments kind of go to show that I might be right.
- Fnoord 9y agoNo, it shows that you don't provide any proof for your "theory" (there is not much theory to begin with), and therefore its one of the many conspiracy theories floating around. Occam's razor, please.
- timthelion 9y agoWell, there are plenty of people here guessing at who might have done it. I cannot provide any proof. I didn't say that I think they did it. I was just pointing out that the current list of parties to consider: The Chinese, the Russians, the CIA, is incomplete without including anti-communist Cuban ex-patriots. I don't need to provide proof in order to consider a possibility.
- Fnoord 9y agoAgreed, it is an option to explore. What I disagree with is the fact you're being downvoted means you are being right. If anything, its more likely a sign you're being wrong (or that your comment is otherwise not welcome). I suggest you don't worry too much about up- or downvotes.
- jayess 9y agoI like how the article title is "U.S. does not believe Cuba is behind sonic attacks on American diplomats" Yet the article <title> is "Trump to pull diplomats out of Cuba, but think Havana is behind attacks"
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- fish_fan 9y agoHeh, since when does Trump have any clue what’s going on.
- furyofantares 9y agoI'd suggest since sometime before he entered politics and immediately ran a successful campaign to become president despite no prior political experience. Probably before he went into television and became highly highly successful there without prior experience. I'd probably go all the way back to sometime before he became a billionaire in real estate.
- fish_fan 9y agoSuccess does not imply awareness of why it happened, or in fact much of anything. I mean, it’s a joke that he never wanted the job to begin with, instead aiming at inflating his own ego. It’s not even clear he reads memos his own staff writes him. If the man appears to act rationally, it seems to be incidental rather than by design. Trump is amazing at convincing people to keep treating him seriously, I’ll give him that. What exactly are these assets of his worth billions? What successes has he had? The only thing he’s sold since the 80s is his face. That doesn’t mean there’s anything happening behind it—being the president is more than looking in the mirror. Last I checked, he’s only avoided being in deep debt to the IRS due to flexible accounting. Of course, when you base your brand on your face, it’s hard to speak confidently about its value at all.... something he continually exploits to inflate his image.
- ckozlowski 9y ago
- bandrami 9y agoI have a "bucket file" of stories I hope get declassified before I die, and this is definitely in it now. (I'm the trailing spouse to a US diplomat and know some of the people in Cuba -- if anything, the media coverage is underplaying how weird this is.)
- kilroy123 9y agoInteresting. Are these people permanently damaged or hurt?
- bandrami 9y ago(I should clarify: I know some of the State Department staff in Havana; I don't know any of the injured people.) My understanding is that nobody is entirely clear whether this is permanent or not. Some people have recovered quickly and others are still having lingering effects. Several suffered a concussion, which just doesn't work -- I work for an audio simulation company (think jets and helicopters) and there's just no way audible sound or even infrasound can do this. OTOH, there is a theory that guided infrasound can do serious tissue damage, which was possibly the cause of Dyatlov Pass[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoThis is basically the conclusion I figured they'd reach. Cuba has too much to gain from a good economic relationship with us to be making "dick moves" like this and we have basically nothing to gain from not having a good economic relationship with them.
- xupybd 9y agoI wonder if there are any already deaf diplomats that would be willing to serve there. That said if they're willing to harm people this way it probably wouldn't be much of a step for them to find other ways to harm US diplomats.
- ridgeguy 9y agoIt may be that hearing impairment is only one, and/or the first noticeable, effect of whatever is happening in Cuba. In analogy to the way damage due to CTE can manifest long after the injury, I'd be concerned about problems that might take longer to surface. The whole thing is quite weird. (edit to add: It's not clear that ability to hear is a necessary condition for the observed damage. It might simply be a consequence, not a prerequisite for damage.)
- sulizilxia 9y agoI wish they'd stop referring to them as sonic attacks--I think the perception of sonic disturbance is a side effect of something else.
- wavefunction 9y agoThe assumption I've seen is that this was some sort of eaves-dropping attempt gone awry but why would it occur during the target's sleep when eavesdropping is likely useless unless all the targets talk in their sleep about state secrets? What if the intent was a false-flag attack to disrupt relations between Cuba and the US?
- krapp 9y ago>What if the intent was a false-flag attack to disrupt relations between Cuba and the US? Possible, but why make it so weird? Everyone is talking about the "sonic attacks" and no one is talking about damage to US/Cuban relations.
- wavefunction 9y ago>no one is talking about damage to US/Cuban relations. You say this but the US authorities have made a specific point of stating they don't believe it to be the fault of Cuba or its government. For the average American (which is neither you nor I whatever our nationalities) they hear "Americans attacked in Cuba."
- njharman 9y agoDid you read the article? There are specific examples of souring relations. Calls to dismiss Cuban diplomats.
- aaron695 9y agoIt's because they are witches! As long as we find a albino and cut them up and eat them all good. Or we could all learn the term 'mass hysteria' and move along..... perhaps throw in 'moral panic' to the google search while we are there, it wouldn't hurt.
- SubiculumCode 9y agoRussian operatives will be my guess. Just for the record.
- drpgq 9y agoSome Canadian diplomats have been affected too, which makes it even weirder. Surprised the article didn't mention it.
- tbabb 9y agoWhat is the nature of these "attacks"? The symptoms? The circumstances? This article gives very little context.
- ithinkinstereo 9y agoIs uBeam beta testing their prototype in Cuba?
- aaron695 9y agoJust a meta though. Given this is 'false' via Snopes (as expected).... And lets say you buy into the term fake news... Well you don't get much faker than this. I get people are easily fooled for a short period. Read a news site, it takes a hour or two to think it over. But this story is > days old. It's past mob mentality level. And if it's happening on this story what other HN stories would it effect..... Stories on morality I guess. This is in part a 'evil Cubans' meme. SciFi, we all want cool tech that breaks the laws of physics. Appeal to authority? We're trusting in the US government officials to not be incompetent? Mysterious... maybe is actually poison seems the next step in the meme's evolution.... As mentioned in the comments Canadians have caught this meme as well. It travels well in the populous, how does one create spaces were these memes are fire walled off?
- icanhackit 9y agoMy guess: your own spies were monitoring your own diplomats, not dissimilar to what happened to the Senate Intelligence Committee [1], just with injuries this time. I wonder if the CIA disagreed or were concerned with what seemed like a Pope Francis/Obama led initiative to mend relations with Cuba, given the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, and wanted to see how things were progressing at the diplomatic level. Would explain why the US has remained quiet and why relations with Cuba haven't soured, at least openly. In a country lacking internet infrastructure, a passive surveillance method makes sense - even if it comes with risks. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/cia-admits-spying-senate-staffers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/cia-admits-spy...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- basicplus2 9y agoClearly not sonic, most likely microwave
- squarefoot 9y agoAnd the fact that sound was (is?) used to torture prisoners in the Guantanamo complex in Cuba makes this somewhat ironic.