4 ms·

In case someone from Open WhisperSystems is reading: please do NOT add stickers and junk to your clean and pretty system. I know a lot of people that would leav

In case someone from Open WhisperSystems is reading: please do NOT add stickers and junk to your clean and pretty system. I know a lot of people that would leave the service if it turned into WeChat (including me). Stick to the fundamental engineering of privacy as you are doing, and forget the gimmicks.

mintplant 9y ago
I don't understand your motivation here. Every time I advocate using Signal I run into a wall of "but it doesn't have stickers"; for those users, all the privacy engineering is moot if the app doesn't fill their needs. Adding another attachment type would do nothing to degrade your experience, nor would it turn Signal into WeChat.
- thinkloop 9y ago
  It does degrade it tho. There have to be ui elements to interact with them, you need to be up to date on packs, a market needs to be implemented, maybe payment needs to be introduced, the chat looks ugly full of graphics, etc. Plus, every feature adds vectors of attack and things to maintain. I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. I'm not saying my preferences are any better than yours, just highlighting that there are varied preferences out there. If signal started looking like WeChat or Messenger I'd probably leave.
  - mintplant 9y ago
    > you need to be up to date on packs, a market needs to be implemented, maybe payment needs to be introduced You don't need any of that. Certainly none of that is present in Telegram. I don't think you read my original comment in full. > I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. Ironically Signal already has Giphy integration, but I suppose you didn't notice because you don't use it—as would be the case with stickers.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    > I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. Not sure how you could be more condescending here. Look, I get it. I don't use stickers on messaging apps that support them, and I don't have a "GIF keyboard" or whatever. But plenty of actual adults use them and like them, and don't consider a messaging experience complete without them. If Signal's goal is to be a niche messaging platform that only hyper-privacy/security-conscious people use, then by all means, leave out the user-fun features that the masses want. But if they actually want to raise the bar for mass-market security and privacy, those features are essential. Maybe that's "lame"or "childish" to you, but that's just how it is. If the addition of stickers makes you leave the platform, then that's certainly a loss for you and those like you, but it's a huge win for the much-larger group of people who will be attracted to the service.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  What do you imagine is the point of proselytizing the use of secure apps to people for whom this is a concern that would override security? They aren't likely to adhere to secure practices anyways, so it's moot.
  - mintplant 9y ago
    Moxie has stated in the past that the goal of Signal is not to cater to "security people" but to "make mass surveillance impossible".
ycmbntrthrwaway 9y ago
> I know a lot of people that would leave the service if it turned into WeChat (including me). Where will they go? To some less secure alternative simply because of stickers?
- nebabyte 9y ago
  To some equally secure alternative not bloated down by useless cruft, I'd imagine
- Vinnl 9y ago
  > To some less secure alternative simply because of stickers? I'm afraid you really can't rule that out, no.
orbifold 9y ago
In my opinion the signal ios client is significantly less polished than the telegram client. I could convince my girlfriend to switch to telegram, after she found signal to be intolerable on her android device as well.
- mcny 9y ago
  > In my opinion the signal ios client is significantly less polished than the telegram client. I could convince my girlfriend to switch to telegram, after she found signal to be intolerable on her android device as well. My reaction is the opposite. I love the signal iOS app because it doesn't try to do SMS. It lets you enter the code which is great if I want to use a Google Voice number instead of a carrier number (and I don't forward Google Voice texts to the carriers). I am not a fan of SMS fallback and I am glad I get the "Enable Signal for SMS" on Android as opposed to just sending a text.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    How much do you use it? I sometimes do 1000+ messages a day and find that it's constantly breaking on me.
    - ikawe 9y ago
      Can you make sure any issues are filed over at github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-iOS ?
  - pokemongoaway 9y ago
    You think the Signal app is more polished than the Telegram app?!
    - mcny 9y ago
      I have very limited experience with Telegram. I was comparing Signal for iOS vs Signal for Android. Sorry for the confusion.
Orangeair 9y ago
I think this is an unhelpful suggestion. It seems to me that you're advocating that the developers take an approach which will give them a smaller install base in favor of engineering focus on privacy and security. But communicating privately and securely with someone is impossible if they aren't also using the app. This is the same problem with PGP/GPG -- it may be incredibly secure, but if no one uses it, it doesn't matter. Obtusely refusing to use a good system which has broad appeal is working contrary to your own goals.
- incompatible 9y ago
  Perhaps it could have an opt-in system, where stickers don't work unless both sides in the conversation enable the feature.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dharness 9y ago
Couldn't you just not send any stickers?

mintplant 9y ago

I don't understand your motivation here. Every time I advocate using Signal I run into a wall of "but it doesn't have stickers"; for those users, all the privacy engineering is moot if the app doesn't fill their needs. Adding another attachment type would do nothing to degrade your experience, nor would it turn Signal into WeChat.

thinkloop 9y ago
It does degrade it tho. There have to be ui elements to interact with them, you need to be up to date on packs, a market needs to be implemented, maybe payment needs to be introduced, the chat looks ugly full of graphics, etc. Plus, every feature adds vectors of attack and things to maintain. I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. I'm not saying my preferences are any better than yours, just highlighting that there are varied preferences out there. If signal started looking like WeChat or Messenger I'd probably leave.
- mintplant 9y ago
  > you need to be up to date on packs, a market needs to be implemented, maybe payment needs to be introduced You don't need any of that. Certainly none of that is present in Telegram. I don't think you read my original comment in full. > I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. Ironically Signal already has Giphy integration, but I suppose you didn't notice because you don't use it—as would be the case with stickers.
- kelnos 9y ago
  > I want this to be a Snowden'ish tool for adults, not giffy. Not sure how you could be more condescending here. Look, I get it. I don't use stickers on messaging apps that support them, and I don't have a "GIF keyboard" or whatever. But plenty of actual adults use them and like them, and don't consider a messaging experience complete without them. If Signal's goal is to be a niche messaging platform that only hyper-privacy/security-conscious people use, then by all means, leave out the user-fun features that the masses want. But if they actually want to raise the bar for mass-market security and privacy, those features are essential. Maybe that's "lame"or "childish" to you, but that's just how it is. If the addition of stickers makes you leave the platform, then that's certainly a loss for you and those like you, but it's a huge win for the much-larger group of people who will be attracted to the service.
nebabyte 9y ago
What do you imagine is the point of proselytizing the use of secure apps to people for whom this is a concern that would override security? They aren't likely to adhere to secure practices anyways, so it's moot.
- mintplant 9y ago
  Moxie has stated in the past that the goal of Signal is not to cater to "security people" but to "make mass surveillance impossible".

ycmbntrthrwaway 9y ago

> I know a lot of people that would leave the service if it turned into WeChat (including me). Where will they go? To some less secure alternative simply because of stickers?

nebabyte 9y ago
To some equally secure alternative not bloated down by useless cruft, I'd imagine
Vinnl 9y ago
> To some less secure alternative simply because of stickers? I'm afraid you really can't rule that out, no.

orbifold 9y ago

In my opinion the signal ios client is significantly less polished than the telegram client. I could convince my girlfriend to switch to telegram, after she found signal to be intolerable on her android device as well.

mcny 9y ago
> In my opinion the signal ios client is significantly less polished than the telegram client. I could convince my girlfriend to switch to telegram, after she found signal to be intolerable on her android device as well. My reaction is the opposite. I love the signal iOS app because it doesn't try to do SMS. It lets you enter the code which is great if I want to use a Google Voice number instead of a carrier number (and I don't forward Google Voice texts to the carriers). I am not a fan of SMS fallback and I am glad I get the "Enable Signal for SMS" on Android as opposed to just sending a text.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  How much do you use it? I sometimes do 1000+ messages a day and find that it's constantly breaking on me.
  - ikawe 9y ago
    Can you make sure any issues are filed over at github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-iOS ?
- pokemongoaway 9y ago
  You think the Signal app is more polished than the Telegram app?!
  - mcny 9y ago
    I have very limited experience with Telegram. I was comparing Signal for iOS vs Signal for Android. Sorry for the confusion.

Orangeair 9y ago

I think this is an unhelpful suggestion. It seems to me that you're advocating that the developers take an approach which will give them a smaller install base in favor of engineering focus on privacy and security. But communicating privately and securely with someone is impossible if they aren't also using the app. This is the same problem with PGP/GPG -- it may be incredibly secure, but if no one uses it, it doesn't matter. Obtusely refusing to use a good system which has broad appeal is working contrary to your own goals.

incompatible 9y ago
Perhaps it could have an opt-in system, where stickers don't work unless both sides in the conversation enable the feature.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

dharness 9y ago

Couldn't you just not send any stickers?