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Uber says it's leaving Quebec if province insists on stricter rules
- brndnmtthws 9y agoUber doesn't want to comply with regulations because it takes away their advantage? Gee, what a surprise.
- cperciva 9y agoThese regulations arguably put Uber at a significant disadvantage. 35 hours of training is annoying if you're going to be driving a taxi for 60 hours a week; it's prohibitive if you're considering driving an Uber for 6 hours a week.
- joshuamorton 9y agoI'd agree if Uber was really acting as a ridesharing/carpooling service. I don't know that I've ever had an uber (or lyft, for that matter) driver who drives less than 20 hours a week.
- brndnmtthws 9y agoPlus, why should part-time drivers receive less training? There's no precedent where drivers can opt to take an easier driving test if they intend to drive less on average. Why should there be a special Uber exception? That's cronyism.
- smokeyj 9y agoIsn't the point of a drivers license to certify that you're qualified to drive on the road? Why isn't that enough?
- Sacho 9y agoThe drivers license makes a cost benefit analysis skewed for general use(eg driving to/from work). The usage of a taxi driver is different - perhaps it merits a different type of training and licensing.
- _jal 9y agoIf you think removing restrictions for commercial drivers is sensible, that's something to pursue at the policy level. Making exceptions is exactly the wrong thing to do - you want a level playing field. As far as "why", commercial drivers are held to different standards for a number of reasons. I'm pretty sure you can think of some if you try.
- smokeyj 9y agoAll part-time drivers have to do is out-lobby the entrenched interests? That doesn't sound like a level playing field..
- pixl97 9y agoIt's not enough. That's why 20,000+ people die per year on the roads in the US.
- 27182818284 9y ago>why should there be a special Uber exception? That's cronyism. The exception seems to be going after Uber. Minivan school carpools, etc, have informally existed for a long time without requiring extra licenses.
- vkou 9y agoWere they done for profit? IANAL - yet I can offer legal advice without a license, but I can't represent someone in court, or be paid to offer legal advice without a license. If yes, do for-profit minivan school carpools exist in Montreal?
- brianwawok 9y agoIs the 6 hour a week Uber driver really a significant force? I know early on it worked like that. I thought now you either have 20h a week drivers who only drive during busy times, or 60 hour a week full timers. With the bonus structure etc. I thought it was hardly worth the 6h a week plan?
- mikeash 9y agoTraining requirements should be based on safety requirements, which are the same whether you're on the road for 6 hours a week or 60.
- foota 9y agoThen why insist on better training for ride-sharing drivers than all other drivers?
- mikeash 9y agoI see no particular reason not to have high standards for other drivers too. 35 hours of training seems perfectly reasonable before being allowed to pilot tons of steel at high speeds. Here in the US, driver training requirements are incredibly low, and this results in atrocious behavior on the roads.
- 27182818284 9y agoAs I understand it, the vast majority of driving problems aren't errors from a lack of training, but from training-independent items like falling asleep at the wheel, misjudging distance, ignoring rules that you had been trained about, etc
- mikeash 9y agoHow are those training-independent? I could sort of buy falling asleep as independent, although I would argue that training should cover physiological factors and how to deal with them. Judging distance is definitely something you can help with training, as is remembering/respecting rules. In any case, I see a lot of really simple failures, like an inability to stay within the lane (especially on curves, holy shit the things people do on curves), misunderstanding of right of way, clueless merging, not keeping right, etc., all of which could benefit from additional training.
- SilasX 9y ago>I see no particular reason not to have high standards for other drivers too. 35 hours of training seems perfectly reasonable before being allowed to pilot tons of steel at high speeds. Which they already went through to get a driver's license. The 35 hour taxi training is on top of that.
- wavefunction 9y agoProhibitive in what way? One week of training to start your fabulous new Uber lifestyle reaping serious revenue and enjoying life.
- wpietri 9y agoProhibitive seems strong to me. 35 hours of training to work 600 hours over the next two years is a 5% burden even for your very-part-time driver.
- drpgq 9y agoI wonder how easy it is to do the 35 hours of train. If it is a course that is only run a couple of times per year, then that's pretty prohibitive.
- mahyarm 9y agoYou have to take a week off or spend 4-5 weekend days in training, making driving on Uber a lot less attractive as a part time extra while your already employed.
- wpietri 9y agoSure. I agree it's less attractive. I'm saying it's not prohibitive.
- flexie 9y agoHow would a week's mandatory training be prohibitive? My profession (as a lawyer) required 5 years of mandatory university education and 3 years of practical training and supplementary courses and exams. Other professions require even more. Every year I must take what amounts to 2-3 days of additional courses to maintain my license. And I just push papers and money around. I don't move people. Nobody gets killed if I do a bad job. I think it's only fair to require a tiny bit of training for a taxi driver, also if he works for Uber.
- aetherson 9y agoLast I checked -- which was quite a while ago, and not in Quebec -- the overwhelming majority of Uber drivers drove 20+ hours a week, often 40+.
- microcolonel 9y agoFor what it's worth, the purpose of the regulations is clearly to give the established taxi services an advantage. Fares clearly prefer Uber over the "competing" car services. Both drivers and fares are willing to take the relatively small risks involved (most of which are not specific to Uber anyway) and pay significantly less for a service.
- wpietri 9y agoEven so, it's a bit surprising to me given that the new CEO is singing the "I can change" song. If Uber is really trying to turn over a new leaf, why do something that sounds like the old Uber? At worst, why not wait a couple of years and push for different regulations then? I suppose the answer is that Uber doesn't believe they really have a business if they have to meet existing safety standards.
- kitcar 9y agoLast time I was in Montreal my Uber driver wouldn't drop me at the airport, instead he dropped me at a hotel attached to the airport - he told me reason being in Montreal undercover police officers have been known to wait in the departures drop-off area and impound cars if they suspect you to be an Uber driver. Interesting side note the driver actually was an airport employee - he would drive for Uber twice a day, once to work (he would hang out by the area of the city with lots of Hotels to try and catch and airport trip) and once on the way home. I thought that was kind of awesome.
- craftyguy 9y ago> impound cars if they suspect you to be an Uber driver. How do they impound the vehicle if the driver is in it? Do they arrest the driver first?
- brianwawok 9y agoI suspect they make you get out and call a cab home ;) Plenty of police at the airport, wouldn't be hard.
- freeone3000 9y agoActually using ridesharing to share rides. What a novel concept.
- EnFinlay 9y agoIf Uber was based around this kind of thing then I would support them. Their current business model (for the most part) is one person going to one place. It's identical to driving everywhere yourself, without the hassle of parking.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nicolashahn 9y agoI don't know about you or the guy above, but I pretty much always use Uber Pool/Lyft Line over the single rider versions when it's just me unless I'm in a huge rush. Most of my friends do the same, and I started using both services more then they introduced the feature.
- Iv 9y ago"You are not throwing me out! I chose to quit you first!"
- xfour 9y agoUp next the Austin method. Local competition fills the void providing better service than before proving that it's the technology not the company that's making the difference. Being Canada it would be funny to see a government corporation as the replacement ala liquor.
- keeler 9y agoAustinite here. I still use the local competition even after Uber returned.
- nadavami 9y agoThere is local competition, Teo Taxi, I'll take them over Uber anytime. The prices are about the same, though their coverage is still somewhat limited.
- wavefunction 9y agoAttempt to secretly fund recall effort through a shady 'non-profit activist group' for a local city council person, wasting local tax money and time... Spend $10,000,000 mail-bombing the local citizens to avoid paying a fraction of that to properly fingerprint their drivers via a deceitful and confusing ballot initiative... (I really did love receiving four of the same mailer on the same day, all addressed to me. That I had already received eight other copies of in the preceding week.) Realize you should have just gone to the mercenaries in the GOP State Government who are all for local community control as long as they're the ones controlling everything locally... And then people wonder why I'm anti-Uber. Lyft was involved as well but they don't have all the additional scandals of Uber, so I'll cut them far more slack.
- pm90 9y agoAustin was doing fine with the competitors until the Texas State Govt. passed a law overriding city regulations. I think that was a huge mistake. We were doing fine with the competitors, and I would have continued to use them despite them being slightly more expensive, if only in spite at Uber's actions.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
- ThatGeoGuy 9y agoThey pretty much said the same thing about Calgary, and yet after review they still followed the regulations and are to this day operating in the city. I find it hard to believe Quebec will act terribly different.
- jacquesm 9y ago35 hours of training is too much? I'd say as job training comes that's rather on the low side. And I'm sure Quebec is quaking in its boots by Uber's threat to leave.
- eljimmy 9y agoThe article doesn't go into details on what this training entails. Anyone from MTL know what they would be doing for those 35 hours?
- malandrew 9y agoThis is what I'm curious about too. It doesn't say what the 20 hours of training entails or what additional material will be learned in 35 hours. Focusing on hours in general sounds really dumb. Why not focus on content? Define what drivers need to know regardless of how long the training takes. That allows Uber to produce better and better training materials that shortens the number of hours while still satisfying the reason the requirement for training exists in the first place.
- fortythirteen 9y agoThis is a terribly stupid bluff. Nobody is going to march on city hall because they won't relax regulations for the whims of a single, multi-national company. It seems at least once a week we get another story showing how utterly incompetent the executives in charge of Uber's public image are.
- simias 9y agoWell at this time their "Save Your Uber in London" petition[1] collected nearly 800k signatures. I find it quite baffling because I'm not sure why on earth would I ever petition for a big multinational company known for its shady tactics but here you go. Clearly Uber's executives, or at least their PR department, must be doing something right. [1] https://www.change.org/p/save-your-uber-in-london-saveyouruber https://www.change.org/p/save-your-uber-in-london-saveyourub...
- jk563 9y agoMy assumption would be that most people aren't aware of the shadiness, or at least the level of it.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- microcolonel 9y ago> I find it quite baffling because I'm not sure why on earth would I ever petition for a big multinational company known for its shady tactics but here you go Because you want to use their service, and you want their competitors to be able to play by the same rules. For example, I don't have to have something controversial to say before I defend free speech; I don't have to want to cross any particular private lot before I'd vouch for freedom of movement.
- s73ver_ 9y agoBut this whole things started specifically because Uber wasn't playing by the same rules.
- EternalData 9y agoI'm not sure what Uber thinks is so different about what they provide at this point. There's a lot of work in Montreal already on alternatives for Uber -- I'm sure that will continue.
- doktrin 9y agoGood for Quebec. This could quite feasibly lead to the development of a local competitor, providing job opportunities for local developers and tax dollars for the region / country. Ride sharing services are here to stay, but there's no particular reason that service has to be named 'Uber'.
- nyxtom 9y agoAustin did something similar and it has worked out great (for the most part) since we have Austin ride share which helps the local community.
- Afforess 9y agoI was under the impression the opposite was true. There several ride-sharing services in Austin for a while but their service and quality were abysmal, pickup times were long, and they all collapsed as soon as Uber and Lyft returned.
- nyxtom 9y agoI've always used Austin Rideshare and haven't had a problem. That being said, one anecdote isn't enough. Sadly, overturning Austin's laws at the state level have been detrimental but most people I know use Austin Rideshare
- briankelly 9y agoNot too mention a whole lot of drunk driving in the meantime.
- moduspol 9y agoBut Uber operates without significant issue in countless other markets all over the world without the training Quebec requires. Is it possible the training is not as necessary as presumed? Aren't we opening up a can of worms by praising the idea of creating needless regulations to keep the status quo simply because it's perceived to be more local?
- juliend2 9y agoGood riddance. In Montreal we have [Téo Taxi](http://teomtl.com/ http://teomtl.com/), which is far better, IMO (although more expensive) and more fair with its employees (They get enough by working only 8h/day, compared to previously with Uber or other old-school companies). All electric cars with free wifi in them. The app is on par with Uber's, and the drivers are always nice.
- nyxtom 9y agoThat sounds awesome
- microcolonel 9y agoIsn't being more expensive part of the problem? I think one of the main things that is "better" about Uber is how comparatively cheap it is. I know a couple of people who make enough money not to really care what they spend day-to-day, but I suspect that for most people that few dollars per fare is the difference between viable and unacceptable.
- pixl97 9y ago>Isn't being more expensive part of the problem? It is a big part of the problem when Uber is using VC money to subsidize part of the trip and when Uber isn't following safety/training/insurance regulations. People are funny about that. They will bitch and moan about how expensive something is, but the second something goes wrong they want more safety features and regulation, in spite of the cost increase it will bring.
- nyxtom 9y agoThis ^^^^ Uber operates at a loss which is based on a grandiose vision of the future. It's their only way to undercut competition.
- ghaff 9y agoWhich will last as long as the VC subsidies do--i.e. probably not much longer. I suspect that a lot of people who have grown accustomed to the sort of low fares that losing billions of dollars make possible are in for a surprise when prices rise up to be more in line with cabs again.
- brango 9y agoDoesn't that sort of attitude play into TfL's hand in London? Another example of Uber not willing to play by the rules, especially ones arguably safety-related?
- simlevesque 9y agoThey destroyed evidence while they were under investigation in Quebec and they won't pay any taxes... good riddance!
- TwoNineA 9y agoExactly. Someone please invent a particle sized violin so we can play them.
- nyxtom 9y agoI'm really tired of this multi-national corporations thinking they can come in and destroy the local market while leaving pennies for the employees; let alone not comply with local regulations. Good riddance!
- Apocryphon 9y agoSounds like a potential entrant for Lyft's first market outside of the U.S.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- yarrel 9y agoExcuse me while I open my app that uses VC cash to double the payment I send to the nearest amateur violin player in order to play a really, really sad tune.
- Waterluvian 9y agoLike a kid taking his toys home because you won't play his game. I would love to see some sort of framework that facilitates ride sharing without it being attached to a single company.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nyxtom 9y agoSo if you’re an entrepreneur, and circumventing employment regulation is your benchmark for ‘innovation’, it’s really time to get a new playbook.
- devdevdev83 9y agoYes, please leave.