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Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this

Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this is a logical step. They can't start small, meaning the need users to train the SE? What else can it be. Of course they can't put live a horrible version...

xRahul 9y ago
Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  Is this because Apple is so bad, or just that Google is so much better than everyone else? I’ve never used physical satnav units, but how do they compare to Apples offerings?
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    The main aftermarket satnav products are from Garmin and TomTom - and in-car systems tend to either license their tech or use NavTeq/HERE. Even Apple Maps bootstrapped off TomTom and still largely just aggregates from other sources. I use iOS, but I very much prefer using Google Maps to Apple Maps: mainly for the Google Account integration, and it feels like they provide more information (shop/restaurant hours, street-view) even though Apple Maps provides almost the same level of detail. On my desktop I use a Google Maps and the map design is the same so familiarity helps, whereas Apple Maps is strictly off-limits for Windows and Linux users. Given that Apple and Microsoft are no-longer competing in the mobile space (MSFT finally admitted Windows Phone's failure earlier this year) maybe we can see Apple choosing MSFT/Bing services over Google? Apple could save a lot of money by switching to Bing Maps, and with a re-skin no-one would notice!
    - chrisper 9y ago
      HERE has their own app, too. It is not bad, but sadly not quite Google Maps level. https://wego.here.com https://wego.here.com https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego-app https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego... Btw. HERE is owned by Audi and some other car companies.
      - dpcx 9y ago
        It also has an offline feature that most other mobile map services would kill for.
  - izacus 9y ago
    It varies by location a lot, but here in central Europe, Garmin units (including builtin satnav) tend to be more accurate and carry more car-relevant information (speed limits, etc.) than Apple Maps. Same goes for Google Maps as well, which still don't have speed limits available which is kind of critical when driving through unfamiliar streets.
- toephu2 9y ago
  Have you used Apple Maps recently? It's not that bad anymore. Just because they had bad press about it 5 years ago doesn't mean the product is still stuck in 2012.
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    Great point. Yeah they got bad press, but are no longer hostage to Google Maps and have an acceptable maps product that gets improved as time goes by. If Tim Cook decides that $10billion in acquisition /hiring is needed for seearch, I'm sure he'll have it in a few hours from the board. Apple might release the search engine to just a xx% at a time and rotate to see /get data to tweak it (if it's feasible) or make Apple Search default but give option to switch for a few years. Search is like maps, a core product.
  - SirHound 9y ago
    "Not that bad" doesn't really stand up to Google Maps, which is excellent.
  - thestephen 9y ago
    While your sentiment probably holds correct in some places, it really is "that bad" in some places that aren't the US or the UK. Many countries still don't have transit, and my apartment (in Stockholm!) doesn't even exist in Apple Maps.
    - wrboyce 9y ago
      Have you ever submitted an error report? I moved house just over 12 months ago and there were some errors on both Apple and Google maps. I submitted error reports to both providers, Apple had it fixed in around 48 hours whereas Google have still not fixed it. At least one of the errors is extremely easy to verify and fix.
      - macintux 9y ago
        I've had mixed results. I report errors to Apple fairly regularly, and while some are fixed quickly, some are seemingly ignored forever. Even in the US, there are a lot of missing POI on Apple Maps. Parks in particular are woefully underrepresented.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  I've been preferring Maps to Google's utterly user-hostile experience for quite a while now. It's odd - Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. That's great on a phone! But Google Maps? Christ... it's so bad. All of their iPhone apps are downright user-hostile but Maps is the worst.
  - Hoasi 9y ago
    > Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. Waze is an independent company.
    - Nilef 9y ago
      Nope (http://investvine.com/google-buys-map-software-provider-waze-for-1b/ http://investvine.com/google-buys-map-software-provider-waze...)
    - skinnymuch 9y ago
      You mean after Google bought them four years ago? They had independence to a degree and were allowed to stay in Israel for 3 years after signing an agreement, but that time has passed. At this point they are completely under Google.
- amelius 9y ago
  They don't have to brand it "Apple" initially.
- notsuretho 9y ago
  Had they started the search offering with the maps offering, I think they’d be on par with Bing for 95% of searches. That said, there’s a lot to be said for concentrating on strengths.
bigbugbag 9y ago
Probably because it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost and does not bring in any serious money. Also they probably lack the skill to do this.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  >>it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost...Also they probably lack the skill to do this.... " all solved by money, virtually unlimited money as Apple makes $45+ billion in income each year and has some $200+ billion in bank. They can bid against google for google's top search engineers and Google will run out of money first.. There is a lot of money in search, maybe not as much as Google is making now (90% of their page is ads) but still a lot money, more than enough to make the investment worthwhile.
iaml 9y ago
They'd rather stick to building devices.
robryan 9y ago
Doesn't Microsoft also basically have a bottomless checkbook to spend on search? And Bing can't compete.
- romanovcode 9y ago
  I think MS just does not care too much about Bing anymore, it's all about Azure nowadays.
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    They've tried hard with Bing for so many years now. It's also profitable. They re-did their Yahoo deal a few years ago too. They care about Bing it seems, but it's clear they can't make much headway.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  OP seems to be saying to throw a ton of money at search. Microsoft spent billions in losses over the past decade. Profitable now, but market share isn't too strong. And a lot of the market share gains are from Yahoo anyway. So I agree. I don't see how Yahoo double or triple spending what Bing spent helping. Especially if they start out in 2017. On the other hand, if they work with Bing and have some sort of search engine Joint Venture with money and smarts poured in, maybe they can put a dent into search. I doubt Apple who care about profits so much would be down for such an endeavor.
macintux 9y ago
Sacrifice billions a year from Google to spend billions a year trying to compete, for zero additional revenue? That's a tough sales pitch.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  Why zero additional revenue? Once it get good enough non-Apple device users will use it.
  - macintux 9y ago
    You're right: not zero, but I suspect just a rounding error on their books. Apple's ability to monetize ads, particularly given their stance on privacy, is suspect, and I'm not sure how else one would make money with a search engine.

xRahul 9y ago

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

lucaspiller 9y ago
Is this because Apple is so bad, or just that Google is so much better than everyone else? I’ve never used physical satnav units, but how do they compare to Apples offerings?
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  The main aftermarket satnav products are from Garmin and TomTom - and in-car systems tend to either license their tech or use NavTeq/HERE. Even Apple Maps bootstrapped off TomTom and still largely just aggregates from other sources. I use iOS, but I very much prefer using Google Maps to Apple Maps: mainly for the Google Account integration, and it feels like they provide more information (shop/restaurant hours, street-view) even though Apple Maps provides almost the same level of detail. On my desktop I use a Google Maps and the map design is the same so familiarity helps, whereas Apple Maps is strictly off-limits for Windows and Linux users. Given that Apple and Microsoft are no-longer competing in the mobile space (MSFT finally admitted Windows Phone's failure earlier this year) maybe we can see Apple choosing MSFT/Bing services over Google? Apple could save a lot of money by switching to Bing Maps, and with a re-skin no-one would notice!
  - chrisper 9y ago
    HERE has their own app, too. It is not bad, but sadly not quite Google Maps level. https://wego.here.com https://wego.here.com https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego-app https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego... Btw. HERE is owned by Audi and some other car companies.
    - dpcx 9y ago
      It also has an offline feature that most other mobile map services would kill for.
- izacus 9y ago
  It varies by location a lot, but here in central Europe, Garmin units (including builtin satnav) tend to be more accurate and carry more car-relevant information (speed limits, etc.) than Apple Maps. Same goes for Google Maps as well, which still don't have speed limits available which is kind of critical when driving through unfamiliar streets.
toephu2 9y ago
Have you used Apple Maps recently? It's not that bad anymore. Just because they had bad press about it 5 years ago doesn't mean the product is still stuck in 2012.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  Great point. Yeah they got bad press, but are no longer hostage to Google Maps and have an acceptable maps product that gets improved as time goes by. If Tim Cook decides that $10billion in acquisition /hiring is needed for seearch, I'm sure he'll have it in a few hours from the board. Apple might release the search engine to just a xx% at a time and rotate to see /get data to tweak it (if it's feasible) or make Apple Search default but give option to switch for a few years. Search is like maps, a core product.
- SirHound 9y ago
  "Not that bad" doesn't really stand up to Google Maps, which is excellent.
- thestephen 9y ago
  While your sentiment probably holds correct in some places, it really is "that bad" in some places that aren't the US or the UK. Many countries still don't have transit, and my apartment (in Stockholm!) doesn't even exist in Apple Maps.
  - wrboyce 9y ago
    Have you ever submitted an error report? I moved house just over 12 months ago and there were some errors on both Apple and Google maps. I submitted error reports to both providers, Apple had it fixed in around 48 hours whereas Google have still not fixed it. At least one of the errors is extremely easy to verify and fix.
    - macintux 9y ago
      I've had mixed results. I report errors to Apple fairly regularly, and while some are fixed quickly, some are seemingly ignored forever. Even in the US, there are a lot of missing POI on Apple Maps. Parks in particular are woefully underrepresented.
abritinthebay 9y ago
I've been preferring Maps to Google's utterly user-hostile experience for quite a while now. It's odd - Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. That's great on a phone! But Google Maps? Christ... it's so bad. All of their iPhone apps are downright user-hostile but Maps is the worst.
- Hoasi 9y ago
  > Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. Waze is an independent company.
  - Nilef 9y ago
    Nope (http://investvine.com/google-buys-map-software-provider-waze-for-1b/ http://investvine.com/google-buys-map-software-provider-waze...)
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    You mean after Google bought them four years ago? They had independence to a degree and were allowed to stay in Israel for 3 years after signing an agreement, but that time has passed. At this point they are completely under Google.
amelius 9y ago
They don't have to brand it "Apple" initially.
notsuretho 9y ago
Had they started the search offering with the maps offering, I think they’d be on par with Bing for 95% of searches. That said, there’s a lot to be said for concentrating on strengths.

bigbugbag 9y ago

Probably because it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost and does not bring in any serious money. Also they probably lack the skill to do this.

tryingagainbro 9y ago
>>it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost...Also they probably lack the skill to do this.... " all solved by money, virtually unlimited money as Apple makes $45+ billion in income each year and has some $200+ billion in bank. They can bid against google for google's top search engineers and Google will run out of money first.. There is a lot of money in search, maybe not as much as Google is making now (90% of their page is ads) but still a lot money, more than enough to make the investment worthwhile.

iaml 9y ago

They'd rather stick to building devices.

robryan 9y ago

Doesn't Microsoft also basically have a bottomless checkbook to spend on search? And Bing can't compete.

romanovcode 9y ago
I think MS just does not care too much about Bing anymore, it's all about Azure nowadays.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  They've tried hard with Bing for so many years now. It's also profitable. They re-did their Yahoo deal a few years ago too. They care about Bing it seems, but it's clear they can't make much headway.
skinnymuch 9y ago
OP seems to be saying to throw a ton of money at search. Microsoft spent billions in losses over the past decade. Profitable now, but market share isn't too strong. And a lot of the market share gains are from Yahoo anyway. So I agree. I don't see how Yahoo double or triple spending what Bing spent helping. Especially if they start out in 2017. On the other hand, if they work with Bing and have some sort of search engine Joint Venture with money and smarts poured in, maybe they can put a dent into search. I doubt Apple who care about profits so much would be down for such an endeavor.

macintux 9y ago

Sacrifice billions a year from Google to spend billions a year trying to compete, for zero additional revenue? That's a tough sales pitch.

tryingagainbro 9y ago
Why zero additional revenue? Once it get good enough non-Apple device users will use it.
- macintux 9y ago
  You're right: not zero, but I suspect just a rounding error on their books. Apple's ability to monetize ads, particularly given their stance on privacy, is suspect, and I'm not sure how else one would make money with a search engine.