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This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched

This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" * Gmail worked fine I returned in early 2017, oh god what a change: * Don't even think about Facebook * Ironically Facebook messenger worked until my session expired * No gmail, google at all (don't remember about Wikipedia) * Whatsapp worked fine And now it is even getting worse....

yuncun 9y ago
>* Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" Hmm I find this hard to believe because the massacre is known as the June Fourth Incident. "tiananmen" is the location, and blocking that would seem a bit strange for people trying to find directions, etc.
- aeorgnoieang 9y ago
  I'd expect them to block "tiananmen", the search of those exact Latin characters.
- cgb223 9y ago
  It’s almost as if they block the massacre in multiple languages Tiananmen Square is what the massacre is referred to as in the United States
- tinco 9y ago
  It might be based more on the results that those sites return than the query itself. It is just a still existing square. But if you search "Tiananmen" in English, most results will definitely be the sort of thing China doesn't want it's citizens to look at.
- NedIsakoff 9y ago
  You're looking for the wrong thing. Its the May 35th Incident now comrade ;p
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  If you search for Tiananmen in Google, the first result is 6/4. Most westerners associate Tiananmen with the event more than the place. Now if you search for Taylor Swift's most recent album, TS 1989, well, that's kind of blocked also. Not sure why :)
  - yuncun 9y ago
    Wow that's hilarious
dmoy 9y ago
Google didn't work for me at all in 2011. The VPN I used worked, but then stopped after 2015 ish. I now use free roaming on e.g. t mobile / Google fi / etc which gets around all blocks.
- eyeareque 9y ago
  L2TP tunneling works when you use an ip address for the vpn server.
  - dmoy 9y ago
    Hmm maybe that'll be worth getting a static IP at home for my next trip, thanks.
    - eyeareque 9y ago
      It occasionally would drop, but I could simply reconnect.
  - Chaebixi 9y ago
    Why's that? Are you using some commercial VPN service where they're blocking the DNS?
sliverstorm 9y ago
How well does Android work in general if all google services are blocked? I know Android doesn't technically require google, but a lot of the features & stuff are entangled, like backup & restore, contact sync, etc.
- sneak 9y ago
  Speculation: the #1 mobile OS in the #1 mobile market works fine, having been tuned by the people who made it for just that reason.
- mtgx 9y ago
  That's easy. China has a lot of third-party stores, including stores of pirated apps. Some phones even come built-in with some of those stores. As for sync, the Chinese companies selling there have their own cloud services and whatnot. This isn't an issue at all.
- htrp 9y ago
  Barely.... Chinese android phones install a homegrown version of the play store as almost the entire gplay services framework doesn't work.
- rubenbe 9y ago
  You cannot reach the Play Store at all. And your phone always complains about "limited network access", because it cannot ping the google predefined URL.
hellofunk 9y ago
I'm curious, what is the difference between "Facebook was already blocked" and "Don't even think about Facebook", other than 5 years?
- mtgx 9y ago
  VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    Wow. That is some Person of Interest-level business right there.
  - shpx 9y ago
    "One of the prominent Chinese VCs, Neil Shen from Sequoia China, was on the Economist's podcast recently talking about AI in China. When the host asked Shen about the Chinese state's use of AI in monitoring the citizens of China, Shen clammed up. It is an amazing bit of audio (starts around minute 8.) https://www.acast.com/theeconomistasks/theeconomistasks-howdoyouwintheairace- https://www.acast.com/theeconomistasks/theeconomistasks-howd... " https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15017622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15017622
    - FabHK 9y ago
      Given the political environment he faces at home, it was nearly a bit unfair to put him on the spot like that. The silence speaks volumes, though. Most meaningful silence I've heard (?) in a while.
    - hbosch 9y ago
      Wow. This was fascinating, and terrifying both. Thank you for that link. To anyone else, I recommend listening to the whole 16 minutes actually - makes Mr. Shen's silence that much more stark.
abrkn 9y ago
Some WeChat groups relating to cryptocurrency are moving to Telegram. I wonder how that'll last.
Mikeb85 9y ago
I have a friend who's been in China for the last year. Been talking with him on Facebook Messenger the whole time...
bamboozled 9y ago
It seems strict but maybe it's sensible from a security standpoint. Why should a foreign country like China allow foreign owned mass-surveillance systems like Google and Facebook spy on their citizens? I mean even countries in the EU are taking Facebook to court over unauthorised online tracking of citizens [1]. The only difference with China is they have the power to do something about it, which is skip the legislative overhead and get straight to the business of blocking access. I disagree with censorship of this kind; However, I wonder how the US would like it if the shoe was on the other foot? [1] https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/spain-slaps-facebook-with-a-12-million-euro-privacy-violation-fine/d/d-id/1329846?piddl_msgid=329353 https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/spain-...
- plexicle 9y ago
  No one is forcing them to use Google or Facebook. I sure as hell wouldn't want the US blocking Baidu or whatever. Let me decide.
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    I don't get your argument really, nor am I trying to say I support what the Chinese government are doing. Given what we now know about how these companies operate track and consolidate information about users and collaborate with the US Government [1] why would a rival super power trust these companies to operate within their borders? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%...
- computerex 9y ago
  > I disagree with censorship of this kind; However, I wonder how the US would like it if the shoe was on the other foot? Here's a list of websites blocked in China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_C... They block Wikipedia. Hardly a mass-surveillance system. The Chinese government is neanderthal.
  - 9y ago

yuncun 9y ago

>* Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" Hmm I find this hard to believe because the massacre is known as the June Fourth Incident. "tiananmen" is the location, and blocking that would seem a bit strange for people trying to find directions, etc.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago
I'd expect them to block "tiananmen", the search of those exact Latin characters.
cgb223 9y ago
It’s almost as if they block the massacre in multiple languages Tiananmen Square is what the massacre is referred to as in the United States
tinco 9y ago
It might be based more on the results that those sites return than the query itself. It is just a still existing square. But if you search "Tiananmen" in English, most results will definitely be the sort of thing China doesn't want it's citizens to look at.
NedIsakoff 9y ago
You're looking for the wrong thing. Its the May 35th Incident now comrade ;p
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
If you search for Tiananmen in Google, the first result is 6/4. Most westerners associate Tiananmen with the event more than the place. Now if you search for Taylor Swift's most recent album, TS 1989, well, that's kind of blocked also. Not sure why :)
- yuncun 9y ago
  Wow that's hilarious

dmoy 9y ago

Google didn't work for me at all in 2011. The VPN I used worked, but then stopped after 2015 ish. I now use free roaming on e.g. t mobile / Google fi / etc which gets around all blocks.

eyeareque 9y ago
L2TP tunneling works when you use an ip address for the vpn server.
- dmoy 9y ago
  Hmm maybe that'll be worth getting a static IP at home for my next trip, thanks.
  - eyeareque 9y ago
    It occasionally would drop, but I could simply reconnect.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  Why's that? Are you using some commercial VPN service where they're blocking the DNS?

sliverstorm 9y ago

How well does Android work in general if all google services are blocked? I know Android doesn't technically require google, but a lot of the features & stuff are entangled, like backup & restore, contact sync, etc.

sneak 9y ago
Speculation: the #1 mobile OS in the #1 mobile market works fine, having been tuned by the people who made it for just that reason.
mtgx 9y ago
That's easy. China has a lot of third-party stores, including stores of pirated apps. Some phones even come built-in with some of those stores. As for sync, the Chinese companies selling there have their own cloud services and whatnot. This isn't an issue at all.
htrp 9y ago
Barely.... Chinese android phones install a homegrown version of the play store as almost the entire gplay services framework doesn't work.
rubenbe 9y ago
You cannot reach the Play Store at all. And your phone always complains about "limited network access", because it cannot ping the google predefined URL.

hellofunk 9y ago

I'm curious, what is the difference between "Facebook was already blocked" and "Don't even think about Facebook", other than 5 years?

mtgx 9y ago
VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.
- throwanem 9y ago
  Wow. That is some Person of Interest-level business right there.
- shpx 9y ago
  "One of the prominent Chinese VCs, Neil Shen from Sequoia China, was on the Economist's podcast recently talking about AI in China. When the host asked Shen about the Chinese state's use of AI in monitoring the citizens of China, Shen clammed up. It is an amazing bit of audio (starts around minute 8.) https://www.acast.com/theeconomistasks/theeconomistasks-howdoyouwintheairace- https://www.acast.com/theeconomistasks/theeconomistasks-howd... " https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15017622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15017622
  - FabHK 9y ago
    Given the political environment he faces at home, it was nearly a bit unfair to put him on the spot like that. The silence speaks volumes, though. Most meaningful silence I've heard (?) in a while.
  - hbosch 9y ago
    Wow. This was fascinating, and terrifying both. Thank you for that link. To anyone else, I recommend listening to the whole 16 minutes actually - makes Mr. Shen's silence that much more stark.

abrkn 9y ago

Some WeChat groups relating to cryptocurrency are moving to Telegram. I wonder how that'll last.

Mikeb85 9y ago

I have a friend who's been in China for the last year. Been talking with him on Facebook Messenger the whole time...

bamboozled 9y ago

It seems strict but maybe it's sensible from a security standpoint. Why should a foreign country like China allow foreign owned mass-surveillance systems like Google and Facebook spy on their citizens? I mean even countries in the EU are taking Facebook to court over unauthorised online tracking of citizens [1]. The only difference with China is they have the power to do something about it, which is skip the legislative overhead and get straight to the business of blocking access. I disagree with censorship of this kind; However, I wonder how the US would like it if the shoe was on the other foot? [1] https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/spain-slaps-facebook-with-a-12-million-euro-privacy-violation-fine/d/d-id/1329846?piddl_msgid=329353 https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/spain-...

plexicle 9y ago
No one is forcing them to use Google or Facebook. I sure as hell wouldn't want the US blocking Baidu or whatever. Let me decide.
- bamboozled 9y ago
  I don't get your argument really, nor am I trying to say I support what the Chinese government are doing. Given what we now know about how these companies operate track and consolidate information about users and collaborate with the US Government [1] why would a rival super power trust these companies to operate within their borders? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%...
computerex 9y ago
> I disagree with censorship of this kind; However, I wonder how the US would like it if the shoe was on the other foot? Here's a list of websites blocked in China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_C... They block Wikipedia. Hardly a mass-surveillance system. The Chinese government is neanderthal.
- 9y ago