17 ms·

Things I've learned transitioning from engineer to engineering manager

233 points by gregdoesit 9y ago

dominotw 9y ago
I've hit mid-30's and I am still an individual contributor. People tell me ageism be real and I would face the music real soon. How do people become managers, should I just tell my manager that I want to be a manager now. Would he be thratntened that I want his job ?
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  You have options... Join a rapidly growing organisation and help other people to do their jobs better. You will be a manager before you know it. Alternatively move company and apply to be a manager and probably say you had more management experience than you really do. I'm sure at 35 you've had to coach some people to be better and do interviews, these can be highlighted. Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager because anything you ever do that makes her feel threatened from then on will be noted and used against you. People move companies to gain good promotions for a reason.
  - robterrell 9y ago
    > apply to be a manager and probably say you had more management experience than you really do. That's not great advice. Don't lie to get a job. > Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager Every company I've worked at has needed more great engineering managers. There's more than enough work, and anyone who says "I want to help" is my hero. Where I work, when engineers say they want to become managers, we give them gently escalating management responsibilities, enroll them in management training, and give them a mentor for guidance. And later we check to make sure it's still something they want -- it's truly a different job, so they should be able to say "not for me" and go back to being an IC.
    - aceon48 9y ago
      Wow that's smart and awesome. What company does this?
    - andy_ppp 9y ago
      > That's not great advice. Don't lie to get a job. It wasn't advice. I was saying it is one of the ways I've seen people transition into management. Interestingly, the way you said management training happens at your company, I've never seen that happen anywhere, so it sounds like a fantastic place to work. How many people who have been through the management program now have a team?
    - sidlls 9y ago
      I think this very much depends on the organization. Many managers are political creatures who view any desire by ICs to move up the non-technical ladder as a direct threat to them. Take the anecdote for what it is, but I've experienced that personally, and have had friends who have as well. It doesn't necessarily end well. In my case, I started seriously considering a constructive termination suit until I finally found alternate employment (it took almost three months--I wasn't in the Bay Area at the time). My current employer is more like what you describe, however, and I'm thankful for it.
    - jpatokal 9y ago
      > Every company I've worked at has needed more great engineering managers. Has every company you've worked at been successful or at least rapidly growing? There's plenty of cake to go around in a company doubling in size every year, but the daggers come out when there are layoffs twice a year, particularly when the people being laid off aren't SV software engineers with tons of other options.
  - zo1 9y ago
    >"Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager because anything you ever do that makes her feel threatened from then on will be noted and used against you. People move companies to gain good promotions for a reason." I don't entirely think that piece of advice applies if your manager/boss is ambitious. If they're ambitious, then they're most certainly looking for their own replacement. Heck, someone that can in the interim do their tasks while they focus on "moving up".
- marklyon 9y ago
  I started by taking responsibilities for small teams and discrete portions of projects. From there, responsibilities expanded. Now I run a team of around 100 and focus most of my day on admin and training instead of actually creating work product. I like the role, but it's not for everyone. Managing is great when things are good, but can quickly get tough when things aren't. Don't tell your boss you want their job. Tell them you'd like to have an opportunity to contribute in a greater capacity and how you can do that. If there's something specific that thrills you, ask to do that. Put 100% into making sure that thing gets done well.
- anitil 9y ago
  Depends on your relationship with them. I think it's normal and professional to have a conversation along the lines of "I'd like to start getting experience managing people, do you think there'd be a chance for me to do that?". If they're threatened by that conversation, I wouldn't want to work for them frankly. The reality is there's a lot of older coders out there, I think it matters more what you _want_ to do.
- computronus 9y ago
  I've hit mid-40s and I'm still a happy individual contributor. So you aren't necessarily doomed to a management role, and you shouldn't rush into it if that's not what you want. I've always told myself that I'll code until I can't keep up. So far that hasn't happened. Once it does, I will happily transition to more of a management role to be of the greatest value that I can. Along the way (and even now), though, I've had a good number of management-like responsibilities which will help a lot. So, I encourage you to take advantage of those opportunities as they come along. There isn't a bright, hard line between management and individual contribution. There is a space between. A good manager will look out for your career path and help you get to management, if that's what you want.
  - bbarn 9y ago
    I think there's something to a good manager's experience in working with those in their 40's, 50's, and beyond. The problem is that experience is usually going to be less the higher that number gets, and you're potentially dealing with more difficult career moves because the experience level is increasing all the while. I do wonder if that fact has something to do with the "aging out" we see.
- sidlls 9y ago
  This depends very much on the engineering and leadership culture and your manager's view. Also company size matters. Managers are necessarily fewer in number than individual contributors. If the organization isn't big enough there might not be room now. There might be in the future, though, so it may not hurt to make your desire known.
- closeparen 9y ago
  The trick is to be in a growing company where new management seats are materializing by the day. Then your manager will be delighted for the help as his number of directs grows beyond what one person can reasonably keep track of.
- known 9y ago
  LEAD your Junior Engineers and MANAGE http://www.netmba.com/ http://www.netmba.com/
nick0garvey 9y ago
"A Manager's Path" is outstanding on this topic: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XP3GJ7F/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XP3GJ7F/ Definitely recommended if you are considering making the transition - or if you are like me and just want a better understanding of how your manager works.
- richev 9y ago
  s/A/The
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  If we're on books, I'll always suggest "Up the Organization" by Townsend. It's a classic for a reason. https://www.amazon.com/Up-Organization-Corporation-Stifling-Strangling/dp/0787987751 https://www.amazon.com/Up-Organization-Corporation-Stifling-...
andy_ppp 9y ago
I'm always shocked when people end up not knowing things like what they are being asked for by the company if they become an Engineering manager. Here you go, the simple formula for your management success: it's more software, of better quality, made faster, for less money.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  Here's the simple formula for startup success: build a company that earns billions. The hard part is working out how to do that.
- milesvp 9y ago
  Bonus points if you make sure you team is building the right thing. Sadly it's too easy to spend lots of dev time on something that will never make the company any money.
  - hasenj 9y ago
    I don't think that's a bonus point. That's the most important point. Better to spend more time and money building the right thing than wasting time building the wrong thing.
    - wruza 9y ago
      Too bad for me that this thread started at monday morning, so I can't put my concerns here in a detail and take a feedback. In short, I failed our small's company big project last year, being pushed to top-and-only engineering manager for the first time, now instead of being fired in shame or simply leaving, I do quick and dirty project that will keep us afloat for awhile (it is ready after two months of hacking, deadline today). I can not understand now how good software and success are related, because it seems that no one really wants or needs it (the former, of course). I was like team-oriented, human-oriented all the time, project-oriented, but not for company/success. My current guess is that success is success and engineering is engineering. I'm not that kind of both worlds person, and I don't actually like success, because my inner engineer contradicts what I've done under time pressure. I better not finish my side projects than allow them to become that. Most confusing point is that requirements are mostly met, and now I have lot of time to polish it and get back to the main goal. It's not an official advice to anyone, but if you see what can be improved in your workplace, then go improve, but blindly accepting a position may throw you in your personal hell. All many years before I went that route, invested my time in tools and approaches and it paid back making me and my coworkers happy to do our job. High-stake goals do not work that way, and I can't clearly see what you can achieve by breaking yourselves core. For me it seems like a path to personal failure while making some "dirty" money. Reality strikes back. This is my personal anecdote on this subtopic, ymmw.
brogrammernot 9y ago
As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. I disagree with this a ton. The best managers I've had flipped #1 and #2. When your team is performing, the company profits. Far too often I've seen the manager put the company way ahead of the team, and that leads to attrition within your team or a major lack of motivation.
- smaller 9y ago
  As with most management things, there’s probably a lot of nuance to how you can approach this. I’ve had managers make it clear that me and my teams were a distant #2 to the company needs. It was pretty demotivating (as you said). On the other hand, part of a managers job is to align their teams with the organizational priorities. Maybe it comes down to how you achieve that alignment?
  - mdns33 9y ago
    you have to always learn how to take care of your subordinates. That is the secret behind a good manager. people quit managers and not companies majority of the times.
- throwmeaway32 9y ago
  I agree with your disagreement. If you don't care about your people and team and don't put them first then it's highly unlikely you'll actually be in any way productive to give the company what it needs. I guess the way I view it is that company is the destination and team/people is the journey. This way isn't the only way though, I've seen teams run 'company first' it generally involved a lot of unhappy people and I didn't like it, so I avoid that style personally. A friend of mine seems to pride himself on being a 'hard driver' and being 'brought in as the hammer', ; but to each their own.
- celim307 9y ago
  This 100%. The best manager I had I likened to a good platoon commander. Understood importance of morale, respected and trusted us, was transparent when he asked us to do something hard, and would never ask us to do something he wouldn't do himself. Many a times he went to bat for us against upper management and pushed back on death marches, and fought for resources like dinner and extra time off for us after a late night deploy. He understood we were a team, and we weren't stupid. Your employees are working in a technical, educated field. They can smell bullshit a mile away. If you try to take advantage of them they will shit your bed and leave
jpatokal 9y ago
> A couple of months ago I moved from a senior engineer position to being an engineering manager There's some useful advice here for newbie managers (manage your time!), but as a manager, most of really important things you work with -- like building teams and careers -- operate on much longer timescales than a few months. Looking forward to the next update 5 years down the line.
sidlls 9y ago
> As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. I think a good manager sees the second two as an important factor in putting the company first. Demoralized teams are bad for the company.
cakedoggie 9y ago
> senior "software" engineer position to being an "software" engineering manager
jeffdavis 9y ago
"As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third." I wouldn't make this into a priority list -- whether it's right or wrong, I think it's the wrong mindset. Priority lists are hard to apply in practice because it's rarely clear who might be losing from a given decision. For one thing, putting the "company" first is a little vague and hard to internalize. Is that the CEO? The long-term success? The stock price? With a "company" first mindset, you'll probably fall into some political games. Instead, you should start with the actual users of the product and keep that in view. This will help solve the problem where your team executes on a project perfectly and then nobody wants it, or it gets canceled for some mysterious reason. It will also lead you to what's best for the company, make the team successful, and (hopefully) lead to rewards for the team members.
- mmcnl 9y ago
  This 100%. The customers are completely out of scope in this article. They are are essential. You're not engineering stuff just because the CEO of the company likes it. You're doing it because you can add value to your customers. This should always be priority #1, because otherwise you might as well drop everything and go home.
- cema 9y ago
  Yes, customers seem to have been overlooked. A telling omission, I think.
lordnacho 9y ago
> As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. Remember that a "company" is an imagined reality that works because a lot of people believe it. "Team" is as well, but fewer people need to believe it. (Compare those to "nation"). Your team members are real though.
- ramblerman 9y ago
  The idea that the company doesn't exist was first highlighted to me in "The Software Hegemony" and it's been a super useful mental crutch since. You are absolutely right. The company doesn't make you promises, offer you raises, or in fact owe you anything, people do.
  - jerrre 9y ago
    > "The Software Hegemony" Do you mean this? https://www.daedtech.com/developer-hegemony-the-crazy-idea-that-software-developers-should-run-software-development/ https://www.daedtech.com/developer-hegemony-the-crazy-idea-t...
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  What's an ant colony then -- imaginary or real? And if imaginary, who is doing the imagining? I'm not sure I understand your position.
  - hycaria 9y ago
    This phrasing sounds like the book Sapiens (that I'm currently reading and does not live up to its hype for me). I also think thats a superflous way to describe the world though.
    - lordnacho 9y ago
      I read it recently, and it was a major influence, that passage. It's a bit too ambitious to describe everything we do as a species, so the book does get a bit stale partway through. The central idea isn't wrong at all. It's quite clear that we've created a bunch of cultural shared "items" like the the limited liability corporation and such, which are useful but don't really have a physical existence. That doesn't mean they're easy to create or destroy either.
z3t4 9y ago
Why do software companies promote people to managers !? All those years of experience wasted. And he still doesn't know what he's supposed to do besides putting the company's needs before it's employees.
- acconrad 9y ago
  Because some people want to transition? One of the things Google expouses is to have managers who code because it builds empathy. I'm a manager and I still code daily, and I think I'm a better manager for it.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  What's the alternative? Having people who don't know how to create software managing the creation of software?
  - z3t4 9y ago
    I think an experienced developer is worth much more then an inexperienced manager. And I also believe in flat organizations when it comes to software.

233 points by gregdoesit 9y ago

I've hit mid-30's and I am still an individual contributor. People tell me ageism be real and I would face the music real soon. How do people become managers, should I just tell my manager that I want to be a manager now. Would he be thratntened that I want his job ?

andy_ppp 9y ago
You have options... Join a rapidly growing organisation and help other people to do their jobs better. You will be a manager before you know it. Alternatively move company and apply to be a manager and probably say you had more management experience than you really do. I'm sure at 35 you've had to coach some people to be better and do interviews, these can be highlighted. Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager because anything you ever do that makes her feel threatened from then on will be noted and used against you. People move companies to gain good promotions for a reason.
- robterrell 9y ago
  > apply to be a manager and probably say you had more management experience than you really do. That's not great advice. Don't lie to get a job. > Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager Every company I've worked at has needed more great engineering managers. There's more than enough work, and anyone who says "I want to help" is my hero. Where I work, when engineers say they want to become managers, we give them gently escalating management responsibilities, enroll them in management training, and give them a mentor for guidance. And later we check to make sure it's still something they want -- it's truly a different job, so they should be able to say "not for me" and go back to being an IC.
  - aceon48 9y ago
    Wow that's smart and awesome. What company does this?
  - andy_ppp 9y ago
    > That's not great advice. Don't lie to get a job. It wasn't advice. I was saying it is one of the ways I've seen people transition into management. Interestingly, the way you said management training happens at your company, I've never seen that happen anywhere, so it sounds like a fantastic place to work. How many people who have been through the management program now have a team?
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I think this very much depends on the organization. Many managers are political creatures who view any desire by ICs to move up the non-technical ladder as a direct threat to them. Take the anecdote for what it is, but I've experienced that personally, and have had friends who have as well. It doesn't necessarily end well. In my case, I started seriously considering a constructive termination suit until I finally found alternate employment (it took almost three months--I wasn't in the Bay Area at the time). My current employer is more like what you describe, however, and I'm thankful for it.
  - jpatokal 9y ago
    > Every company I've worked at has needed more great engineering managers. Has every company you've worked at been successful or at least rapidly growing? There's plenty of cake to go around in a company doubling in size every year, but the daggers come out when there are layoffs twice a year, particularly when the people being laid off aren't SV software engineers with tons of other options.
- zo1 9y ago
  >"Do not tell your boss you want his job/to be a manager because anything you ever do that makes her feel threatened from then on will be noted and used against you. People move companies to gain good promotions for a reason." I don't entirely think that piece of advice applies if your manager/boss is ambitious. If they're ambitious, then they're most certainly looking for their own replacement. Heck, someone that can in the interim do their tasks while they focus on "moving up".
marklyon 9y ago
I started by taking responsibilities for small teams and discrete portions of projects. From there, responsibilities expanded. Now I run a team of around 100 and focus most of my day on admin and training instead of actually creating work product. I like the role, but it's not for everyone. Managing is great when things are good, but can quickly get tough when things aren't. Don't tell your boss you want their job. Tell them you'd like to have an opportunity to contribute in a greater capacity and how you can do that. If there's something specific that thrills you, ask to do that. Put 100% into making sure that thing gets done well.
anitil 9y ago
Depends on your relationship with them. I think it's normal and professional to have a conversation along the lines of "I'd like to start getting experience managing people, do you think there'd be a chance for me to do that?". If they're threatened by that conversation, I wouldn't want to work for them frankly. The reality is there's a lot of older coders out there, I think it matters more what you _want_ to do.
computronus 9y ago
I've hit mid-40s and I'm still a happy individual contributor. So you aren't necessarily doomed to a management role, and you shouldn't rush into it if that's not what you want. I've always told myself that I'll code until I can't keep up. So far that hasn't happened. Once it does, I will happily transition to more of a management role to be of the greatest value that I can. Along the way (and even now), though, I've had a good number of management-like responsibilities which will help a lot. So, I encourage you to take advantage of those opportunities as they come along. There isn't a bright, hard line between management and individual contribution. There is a space between. A good manager will look out for your career path and help you get to management, if that's what you want.
- bbarn 9y ago
  I think there's something to a good manager's experience in working with those in their 40's, 50's, and beyond. The problem is that experience is usually going to be less the higher that number gets, and you're potentially dealing with more difficult career moves because the experience level is increasing all the while. I do wonder if that fact has something to do with the "aging out" we see.
sidlls 9y ago
This depends very much on the engineering and leadership culture and your manager's view. Also company size matters. Managers are necessarily fewer in number than individual contributors. If the organization isn't big enough there might not be room now. There might be in the future, though, so it may not hurt to make your desire known.
closeparen 9y ago
The trick is to be in a growing company where new management seats are materializing by the day. Then your manager will be delighted for the help as his number of directs grows beyond what one person can reasonably keep track of.
known 9y ago
LEAD your Junior Engineers and MANAGE http://www.netmba.com/ http://www.netmba.com/

nick0garvey 9y ago

"A Manager's Path" is outstanding on this topic: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XP3GJ7F/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XP3GJ7F/ Definitely recommended if you are considering making the transition - or if you are like me and just want a better understanding of how your manager works.

richev 9y ago
s/A/The
SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
If we're on books, I'll always suggest "Up the Organization" by Townsend. It's a classic for a reason. https://www.amazon.com/Up-Organization-Corporation-Stifling-Strangling/dp/0787987751 https://www.amazon.com/Up-Organization-Corporation-Stifling-...

andy_ppp 9y ago

I'm always shocked when people end up not knowing things like what they are being asked for by the company if they become an Engineering manager. Here you go, the simple formula for your management success: it's more software, of better quality, made faster, for less money.

jpatokal 9y ago
Here's the simple formula for startup success: build a company that earns billions. The hard part is working out how to do that.
milesvp 9y ago
Bonus points if you make sure you team is building the right thing. Sadly it's too easy to spend lots of dev time on something that will never make the company any money.
- hasenj 9y ago
  I don't think that's a bonus point. That's the most important point. Better to spend more time and money building the right thing than wasting time building the wrong thing.
  - wruza 9y ago
    Too bad for me that this thread started at monday morning, so I can't put my concerns here in a detail and take a feedback. In short, I failed our small's company big project last year, being pushed to top-and-only engineering manager for the first time, now instead of being fired in shame or simply leaving, I do quick and dirty project that will keep us afloat for awhile (it is ready after two months of hacking, deadline today). I can not understand now how good software and success are related, because it seems that no one really wants or needs it (the former, of course). I was like team-oriented, human-oriented all the time, project-oriented, but not for company/success. My current guess is that success is success and engineering is engineering. I'm not that kind of both worlds person, and I don't actually like success, because my inner engineer contradicts what I've done under time pressure. I better not finish my side projects than allow them to become that. Most confusing point is that requirements are mostly met, and now I have lot of time to polish it and get back to the main goal. It's not an official advice to anyone, but if you see what can be improved in your workplace, then go improve, but blindly accepting a position may throw you in your personal hell. All many years before I went that route, invested my time in tools and approaches and it paid back making me and my coworkers happy to do our job. High-stake goals do not work that way, and I can't clearly see what you can achieve by breaking yourselves core. For me it seems like a path to personal failure while making some "dirty" money. Reality strikes back. This is my personal anecdote on this subtopic, ymmw.

brogrammernot 9y ago

As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. I disagree with this a ton. The best managers I've had flipped #1 and #2. When your team is performing, the company profits. Far too often I've seen the manager put the company way ahead of the team, and that leads to attrition within your team or a major lack of motivation.

smaller 9y ago
As with most management things, there’s probably a lot of nuance to how you can approach this. I’ve had managers make it clear that me and my teams were a distant #2 to the company needs. It was pretty demotivating (as you said). On the other hand, part of a managers job is to align their teams with the organizational priorities. Maybe it comes down to how you achieve that alignment?
- mdns33 9y ago
  you have to always learn how to take care of your subordinates. That is the secret behind a good manager. people quit managers and not companies majority of the times.
throwmeaway32 9y ago
I agree with your disagreement. If you don't care about your people and team and don't put them first then it's highly unlikely you'll actually be in any way productive to give the company what it needs. I guess the way I view it is that company is the destination and team/people is the journey. This way isn't the only way though, I've seen teams run 'company first' it generally involved a lot of unhappy people and I didn't like it, so I avoid that style personally. A friend of mine seems to pride himself on being a 'hard driver' and being 'brought in as the hammer', ; but to each their own.
celim307 9y ago
This 100%. The best manager I had I likened to a good platoon commander. Understood importance of morale, respected and trusted us, was transparent when he asked us to do something hard, and would never ask us to do something he wouldn't do himself. Many a times he went to bat for us against upper management and pushed back on death marches, and fought for resources like dinner and extra time off for us after a late night deploy. He understood we were a team, and we weren't stupid. Your employees are working in a technical, educated field. They can smell bullshit a mile away. If you try to take advantage of them they will shit your bed and leave

jpatokal 9y ago

> A couple of months ago I moved from a senior engineer position to being an engineering manager There's some useful advice here for newbie managers (manage your time!), but as a manager, most of really important things you work with -- like building teams and careers -- operate on much longer timescales than a few months. Looking forward to the next update 5 years down the line.

sidlls 9y ago

> As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. I think a good manager sees the second two as an important factor in putting the company first. Demoralized teams are bad for the company.

cakedoggie 9y ago

> senior "software" engineer position to being an "software" engineering manager

jeffdavis 9y ago

"As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third." I wouldn't make this into a priority list -- whether it's right or wrong, I think it's the wrong mindset. Priority lists are hard to apply in practice because it's rarely clear who might be losing from a given decision. For one thing, putting the "company" first is a little vague and hard to internalize. Is that the CEO? The long-term success? The stock price? With a "company" first mindset, you'll probably fall into some political games. Instead, you should start with the actual users of the product and keep that in view. This will help solve the problem where your team executes on a project perfectly and then nobody wants it, or it gets canceled for some mysterious reason. It will also lead you to what's best for the company, make the team successful, and (hopefully) lead to rewards for the team members.

mmcnl 9y ago
This 100%. The customers are completely out of scope in this article. They are are essential. You're not engineering stuff just because the CEO of the company likes it. You're doing it because you can add value to your customers. This should always be priority #1, because otherwise you might as well drop everything and go home.
cema 9y ago
Yes, customers seem to have been overlooked. A telling omission, I think.

lordnacho 9y ago

> As an engineering manager, you'll need to put company first, team second and your team members third. Remember that a "company" is an imagined reality that works because a lot of people believe it. "Team" is as well, but fewer people need to believe it. (Compare those to "nation"). Your team members are real though.

ramblerman 9y ago
The idea that the company doesn't exist was first highlighted to me in "The Software Hegemony" and it's been a super useful mental crutch since. You are absolutely right. The company doesn't make you promises, offer you raises, or in fact owe you anything, people do.
- jerrre 9y ago
  > "The Software Hegemony" Do you mean this? https://www.daedtech.com/developer-hegemony-the-crazy-idea-that-software-developers-should-run-software-development/ https://www.daedtech.com/developer-hegemony-the-crazy-idea-t...
SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
What's an ant colony then -- imaginary or real? And if imaginary, who is doing the imagining? I'm not sure I understand your position.
- hycaria 9y ago
  This phrasing sounds like the book Sapiens (that I'm currently reading and does not live up to its hype for me). I also think thats a superflous way to describe the world though.
  - lordnacho 9y ago
    I read it recently, and it was a major influence, that passage. It's a bit too ambitious to describe everything we do as a species, so the book does get a bit stale partway through. The central idea isn't wrong at all. It's quite clear that we've created a bunch of cultural shared "items" like the the limited liability corporation and such, which are useful but don't really have a physical existence. That doesn't mean they're easy to create or destroy either.

z3t4 9y ago

Why do software companies promote people to managers !? All those years of experience wasted. And he still doesn't know what he's supposed to do besides putting the company's needs before it's employees.

acconrad 9y ago
Because some people want to transition? One of the things Google expouses is to have managers who code because it builds empathy. I'm a manager and I still code daily, and I think I'm a better manager for it.
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
What's the alternative? Having people who don't know how to create software managing the creation of software?
- z3t4 9y ago
  I think an experienced developer is worth much more then an inexperienced manager. And I also believe in flat organizations when it comes to software.