9 ms·
‘Catch Me If You Can’ Scam Artist Has a Warning for Today’s Consumers
- cdubzzz 9y agoThe interview is very light on details. Is it really so plainly simple to draft from a person’s bank account using only the information on a check?
- throwaway2048 9y agoyes, there is zero confirmation on stuff like ACH transfers, all you need is an account number, which is contained on the checks.
- cdubzzz 9y agoBut how exactly does an ACH transfer work? I assume it can’t be done anonymously. Wouldn’t it be incredibly simple to find the culprit and reclaim the funds (using the article’s gas station clerk example)?
- justboxing 9y ago> But how exactly does an ACH transfer work? If you want this from a developer perspective, the subject is discussed in great detail in the following blog post series. How ACH works: A developer perspective - Part 1 => http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-persp... How ACH works: A developer perspective - Part 2 => http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-2/ http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-persp... How ACH works: A developer perspective - Part 3 => http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-3/ http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-persp... How ACH works: A developer perspective - Part 4 => http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-4/ http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-persp... and HN Meta Discussion : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7636066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7636066
- wmf 9y agoI'm not a cybercrime expert, but AFAIK once the fraudulent ACH goes through it's a matter of cashing out the money (to literal cash or resalable goods) before the ACH is inevitably reverted. This leaves the recipient account with a negative balance so it can basically only be used once.
- hydrogen18 9y agoThat's pretty much it exactly. You use two stolen accounts. One with a large balance, one without. ACH from one to the other with a fraudulent. Hire someone to go into the bank in person and withdraw cash. You're done.
- kijin 9y agoThe account to which your money is fraudulently transferred might not even belong to the criminals. They probably have access to multiple compromised accounts and can shuffle money between them to throw off investigators.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sprintf 9y agoDon Knuth has considered it dangerous for years. http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news08.html http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news08.html
- radicaldreamer 9y agoYou can very easily avoid this by opening two bank accounts in the same bank and using online interface to transfer just as much as you need into your working account. Don't write or even create checks for the secondary account and don't disclose the account number to anyone for any reason.
- patcheudor 9y agoI prefer two separate institutions for one reason: things like the Equifax breach. If someone attempts to impersonate you at your bank they could gain access to both accounts. If you have a 'silent' account somewhere else, they'd need to do account recovery at that location as well. The odds of that happening tends to be much lower.
- greggarious 9y agoI also like having two institutions, since one of the biggest threats is ATM card skimming. More machines are moving to EMV, but it's trivial for someone to set up a fake ATM or skimmer, siphon up magstripe data and PINs, and drain accounts. While you are not responsible for fraud, most institutions will freeze the account for 30 days (which is legal) while they investigate. If that checking account has money for your rent or credit card bills, it could be disastrous. So I use a separate account at a separate institution for my "spending money". All I use it for is to withdraw money at ATMs.
- phkahler 9y ago>> using online interface to transfer ... I see where you went wrong there. Have them disallow internet access to your accounts. Easy for you, easy for hacking.
- stevenwoo 9y agoYes. I've had my entire bank account emptied of 25,000 in the 1990's by someone of a different ethnicity and gender who had simply went through a dozen drive throughs of my bank in different city to cash checks in about an hour in an amount under the one that would have required more attention (as explained to me by the bank. They simply wrote checks out for cash and used the memo "to purchase car") I lived in Austin and the thief did this in Houston. I don't know if this same scheme is possible today.
- sliverstorm 9y agoWho paid the piper on that one, you or the bank? Not familiar with the laws in Texas.
- stevenwoo 9y agoI had to sign a paper in the bank swearing I did not withdraw the money and would help the bank as a witness if they found the criminal and then they gave me the equivalent amount of money in my account. IIRC it was kind of weird because they had grainy video/photos of the woman committing the crime.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Amygaz 9y agoIf you call your bank they will ask you for your account number (found on the check), Name (on the check), Address (on the check) and date of birth (not on the check), information about recurring deposit or last deposit (not on the check), and that's pretty much it. I always feel like this is something you can find out by buying someone a beer.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- klenwell 9y agoYes. If you can trick senior citizens into giving you the information over the phone, you've got a legitimate business in the eyes of the banking industry. This was a scam that caught my grandmother 10 years ago. The New York Times did a story on the industry: State regulators have tried to protect victims like Mr. Guthrie. In 2005, attorneys general of 35 states urged the Federal Reserve to end the unsigned check system... But the Federal Reserve disagreed. It changed its rules to place greater responsibility on banks that first accept unsigned checks, but has permitted their continued use. ...In all, Wachovia accepted $142 million of unsigned checks from companies that made unauthorized withdrawals from thousands of accounts, federal prosecutors say. Wachovia collected millions of dollars in fees from those companies, even as it failed to act on warnings, according to records. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/business/20tele.html http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/business/20tele.html I documented my failed effort to get Washington Mutual to reverse the checks written against my grandmother's account: http://wamublamesgrandma.blogspot.com/ http://wamublamesgrandma.blogspot.com/
- codingdave 9y agoYes, but that is also why people with money don't keep it in their checking account. Checking account just hold the money that you need to pay your immediate bills. your "life savings" flow through other savings, money market, and investment accounts. So if your checking account is compromised, you do lose some money and have some hassles to go through... but they aren't going to get everything else.
- gnicholas 9y ago> People go on Facebook and tell you what car they drive, their mother’s name, their wife’s maiden name, children’s name, where they’re going on vacation, where they’ve been on vacation. Also, Equifax.
- yesiamyourdad 9y agoEquifax gets a lot of bad press because they made a ton of money while mismanaging people's personal information. Abagnale's point is that people go throwing around most of that same personal information around with no regard to their privacy.
- throwa34943way 9y agoWhy bother with check fraud that can get you in trouble, when people will give you millions willingly on crowdfuding website for 3D renderings? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1041610927/znaps-the-9-magnetic-adapter-for-your-mobile-devic/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1041610927/znaps-the-9-... $ 2,438,203 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ritot-the-first-projection-watch https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ritot-the-first-projectio... $1,401,510 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/shiftwear-customize-your-kicks-technology https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/shiftwear-customize-your-... $925,952 And you're not even obligated to fulfil anything, just demonstrate you've "tried" enough!
- maxerickson 9y agoKickstarter is at least trying to avoid that: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer#section4 https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer#section4 A $10 rendering is a good test of that though. Most people aren't going to work very hard to get $10 back.
- tmikaeld 9y agoWhen I did a Kickstarter for a client they didn't allow renderings, yet a week after a bigger brand did exactly that, used only renderings. The "rules" are very loose on KS and the projects that I've backed that failed (7 of them totalling 2000$) where all recommended by KS staff.
- tdburn 9y agoThis is why you should really consider having fraud insurance as a backup, like Zanders or even lifelock. Especially of you have any sizable cash in you bank account.
- UnoriginalGuy 9y agoNo point, banks are liable for fraud rather than the consumer. I believe consumer's liability is capped at $50-500 depending on how quickly the fraud is reported. Just make sure you don't wait past 60 days to report. Credit cards have even more protections. These plans rarely pay out, and you'll likely spend more on subscription fees than they'd return to you in fraud payments. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-money-back-after-i-discovered-an-unauthorized-transaction-or-money-missing-from-my-bank-account-en-1017/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-mon...
- tdburn 9y agoThanks for the feedback. You got me thinking I should be more critical of Zanders and whether they actually pay out. I'm gonna check with my insurance agent and see what he offers , at least he would be an advocate for me. FYI: banks are liable only for PERSONAL accounts. If you have a BUSINESS Account that gets hit by fraud, the bank is not liable. Thats where fraud insurance is most important
- astura 9y agoI don't know about Zanders (never heard of them) but LifeLock is nothing but a scam, nobody should every purchase LifeLock for anything ever. To protect against this scam, just don't keep your money in your checking account, simple! My checking account has a balance of zero 99% of the time. If I do a billpayment for $325.45 then I transfer $325.45 to the checking account a minute before I issue the billpay. If I write out a check for my taxes (the only checks I every write) then I transfer the money into the account while I am writing out the check. The only money goes in is when it's already planned to go out. I keep $150 in a separate checking account that I access with ATMs if I need cash on the go.
- keksicus 9y ago>tfw you realize Bitcoin and Monero are more secure than your US banking account. When are we going to stop the stupid practice of using serial numbers and strings for identity and start using strong cryptography to establish identity, authorized signatures, etc?
- bgwallace 9y agoIf strong cryptography is used, the customer won't get any money back in case of fraud. Good luck proving a manufacturer key generation screwup on smart cards for example. Things like this happen.
- craigds 9y agoAre cheques still a thing? I haven't seen one in about ten years, maybe more.
- lostlogin 9y agoI’ve previously noticed that places that spell it ‘cheque’ use the payment method less than those who spell it check.
- Aaargh20318 9y agoProbably because they are no longer issued or accepted in Europe. Europay pulled the plug on them in 2002.
- gambiting 9y agoI'm 26 and I have literally never seen a check in my entire life, I don't even know how one would go about issuing one? It seems like such a US-exclusive thing, together with card payments that require signatures.
- looperhacks 9y agoI've never seen a check either, but signatures are still a thing in Germany (but not very often).
- Aaargh20318 9y agoNot if you live in Europe. Cheques weren't used anymore anyway, but they finally pulled the plug on them at the end of 2002.
- kleim 9y agoEuropean here. Nope. You are talking about Eurocheques.
- Aaargh20318 9y ago
- a3n 9y ago> Mr. Abagnale now puts his skills to use teaching FBI agents around the country about cybercrime, identity theft and fraud. “Frank has a unique ability” to communicate, says the special agent in charge of the FBI’s Charlotte, N.C., field office, John Strong, who has worked with Mr. Abagnale on multiple occasions. “The guy is a genius.” His masterpiece scam?
- skrebbel 9y agoYou didn't finish the article. He spent age 21 to 26 in prison. That's long, and it's the years when people usually develop their life direction and opportunities.
- R_haterade 9y agoThat he didn't turn back to crime after spending that time of his life in the best school for crime is surprising. Good for him.
- xigency 9y agoNot sure that it works like that in the solitary confinement of a French prison.
- R_haterade 9y agoGood point. I need to learn more about this guy.
- Fjolsvith 9y agoThat anyone knows about. He's a smart guy. 5 years of sitting and thinking, "Hmmm, how could I do this better next time and not get caught...?"
- kapauldo 9y agoCleaned https://read.feedly.com/html?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Famp%2Farticles%2Fcatch-me-if-you-can-scam-artist-has-a-warning-for-todays-consumers-1506002560&theme=white&size=medium https://read.feedly.com/html?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2...