4 ms·

But weeds are becoming more resistant to Roundup, so the industry is developing seeds that are tolerant to more herbicides. Isn't this a classic Red Queen's Ra

by caf 9y ago

But weeds are becoming more resistant to Roundup, so the industry is developing seeds that are tolerant to more herbicides. Isn't this a classic Red Queen's Race?

maxerickson 9y ago
I don't think so. Each herbicide innovation may have a shelf life, but in the mean time it provides a lot of utility to farmers (they buy into seed+herbicide systems because the systems make for more reliable harvests).
- whatshisface 9y ago
  With antibiotics, we find that the good ones with easy synthesis and low toxicity tend to be low-hanging fruit, leaving the new developments to be expensive and deadly. A similar arms-race in agriculture is the last thing we want. It's like all of our big inventions are being rolled back against us, starting with modern medicine, passing through agriculture and eventually taking fire away as we have to shut down the power plants to stop global warming. Give it a few years and we'll probably discover something horribly wrong with the wheel.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    We can do modern agriculture without Roundup.
    - whatshisface 9y ago
      Back in 2007, this paper reported that about 20% of US crop production was owed to herbicides: https://croplifefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/weed-technology-article-2007.pdf https://croplifefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/we... We probably won't get to multiple-resistant weeds in a day, or even a decade, but the path towards stronger weed control measures is going to be a very painful one.
      - lovich 9y ago
        We feed a ton of grain to livestock which, while delicious, is not an efficient use of land to get calories. We also lose a bunch of food to inefficiencies in the food chain because it's not worth fixing precisely because techologies like pesticides let us produce so much
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
searine 9y ago
Yes. The only way off the treadmill is to stack as many traits as possible so that evolution doesn't have time to adapt. This was the key to effective treatment of HIV for example. Anti-retroviral cocktails of 3-5 drugs, each with a different mode of action. We're lucky though, plants evolve slow, so we only need a few different traits to slow/stop evolution.
- viggity 9y ago
  furthermore, farmers are forced to plant "refuge" plots - plots that do not get GMO seeds, nor get herbicide/pesticide treatments. This ensures that there is plenty of resistance-less plants/insects left in the gene pool to cross breed with any plants/insects that have developed a resistance - there by preventing the resistant plants/insects from taking over and becoming dominant. Quite brilliant when you think about it.
  - caf 9y ago
    Given that the dispute that is the subject of the original article here is about dicamba drifting onto non-sprayed fields in the local area, some scepticism is warranted as to how well those refuge plots would work.

by caf 9y ago

But weeds are becoming more resistant to Roundup, so the industry is developing seeds that are tolerant to more herbicides. Isn't this a classic Red Queen's Race?

maxerickson 9y ago

I don't think so. Each herbicide innovation may have a shelf life, but in the mean time it provides a lot of utility to farmers (they buy into seed+herbicide systems because the systems make for more reliable harvests).

whatshisface 9y ago
With antibiotics, we find that the good ones with easy synthesis and low toxicity tend to be low-hanging fruit, leaving the new developments to be expensive and deadly. A similar arms-race in agriculture is the last thing we want. It's like all of our big inventions are being rolled back against us, starting with modern medicine, passing through agriculture and eventually taking fire away as we have to shut down the power plants to stop global warming. Give it a few years and we'll probably discover something horribly wrong with the wheel.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  We can do modern agriculture without Roundup.
  - whatshisface 9y ago
    Back in 2007, this paper reported that about 20% of US crop production was owed to herbicides: https://croplifefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/weed-technology-article-2007.pdf https://croplifefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/we... We probably won't get to multiple-resistant weeds in a day, or even a decade, but the path towards stronger weed control measures is going to be a very painful one.
    - lovich 9y ago
      We feed a ton of grain to livestock which, while delicious, is not an efficient use of land to get calories. We also lose a bunch of food to inefficiencies in the food chain because it's not worth fixing precisely because techologies like pesticides let us produce so much
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

searine 9y ago

Yes. The only way off the treadmill is to stack as many traits as possible so that evolution doesn't have time to adapt. This was the key to effective treatment of HIV for example. Anti-retroviral cocktails of 3-5 drugs, each with a different mode of action. We're lucky though, plants evolve slow, so we only need a few different traits to slow/stop evolution.

viggity 9y ago
furthermore, farmers are forced to plant "refuge" plots - plots that do not get GMO seeds, nor get herbicide/pesticide treatments. This ensures that there is plenty of resistance-less plants/insects left in the gene pool to cross breed with any plants/insects that have developed a resistance - there by preventing the resistant plants/insects from taking over and becoming dominant. Quite brilliant when you think about it.
- caf 9y ago
  Given that the dispute that is the subject of the original article here is about dicamba drifting onto non-sprayed fields in the local area, some scepticism is warranted as to how well those refuge plots would work.