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> Of what? Sneakers? If trade with China stopped today, how quickly can the United States re-tool up to supply the enormous demand for PCBs, basic electronic c

> Of what? Sneakers? If trade with China stopped today, how quickly can the United States re-tool up to supply the enormous demand for PCBs, basic electronic components like SMD resistors and capacitors, microcontrollers, transformers, chokes, cables, wifi chips, antennas, power transistors, PLAs, LCD displays, OLED displays, solar modules, and the myriad other goods on which our modern society increasingly relies? "Sneakers" is a cute little jab, but A GDP predicated on the consumption of televised football and mocha lattes is qualitatively different from one predicated on the production of goods upon which reliance the profligate NFL viewers are blissfully unaware. At some point, even if that point is measured in centuries, the producers and savers eventually win over the gluttonous consumers. China is playing a long game with a long-term vision, securing rights over natural resources around the world, acquiring critical control over global supply chains, and artificially pegging the Yuan down to fool us into thinking that the value of passively watching Netflix is (as measured by GDP) greater than that of the construction of ever-faster pick-and-place machines. Meanwhile, we look only to the next quarter and goose our EPS with low-interest stock buybacks, and realistically believe that mindless consumption of pixels is a more solid foundation for an economy than producing the "picks and shovels" used to deliver those pixels.

flachsechs 9y ago
> China is playing a long game the majority of people in the west, the US especially, thinks all china does is make cheap walmart crap. it's perfectly fine to say horrible, racist things about the chinese. nobody seems to care. what's really happening is the chinese government runs the show and facilitates the dumping of cheap stuff into the west to manage expectations/anxiety about their rise, and to fund the real manufacturing and mineral extraction empire. if your competition doesn't take you seriously, that's a net asset, not a liability. "All warfare is based on deception."
- microcolonel 9y ago
  Boy, they really messed up at that, letting folks like DJI tool up and export high quality goods.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  > it's perfectly fine to say horrible, racist things about the chinese. No it's not. The common criticisms have absolutely nothing to do with race.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - flachsechs 9y ago
    well sure, you can falsify my statement by simply not classifying anything as racism. i think the gleeful enthusiasm shown by people relentlessly china-bashing is telling, especially since they seem to do it all the time, as if they've found a loophole to freely express their hatred. if nothing else it's a great little vehicle for racists to hop onto guilt-free.
- pm90 9y ago
  This is a good point and reading it gave me the shivers. Let's not forget that for most of Civilized human existence, China has been the world's foremost economic and cultural power (except perhaps the Roman Empire). Chinese leaders are pretty well aware of that and yearn to put modern China back in its original place. And unlike the US, they don't have to deal with meddlesome democratic system in their march to economic and military supremacy.
Retric 9y ago
US imports less than 1/10th as much from China as it manufactures. Overall, US manufactures more stuff today than at any point in it's history. Clothing, Cars, CPU's, Candy, Cosmetics, Cameras, etc. The DoD has done a great job of having US suppliers for every good it needs which demonstrates the US can still manufacture all critical goods independently. Even if it would have to ramp up production of various things. As mind-blowing as it might seem the US has minimal dependence on China. In part because it exports several times more $ worth of goods ~1.3 trillion to the world than it imports from China ~0.46 Trillion.
- thebrettd 9y ago
  Is any of that 1.3 trillion in exported goods a value-add on top on goods imported from China?
  - Retric 9y ago
    Generally not much simply because of shipping issues. Components may be sourced from China, but you can just as easily source most things from somewhere else.
- toephu2 9y ago
  You listed zero sources for any of your so-called "facts".
nerfhammer 9y ago
US manufacturing output hasn't declined overall, it's just manufacturing employment that has declined. The US can make all of the things you mentioned, though it's often more expensive.
microcolonel 9y ago
The United States is host to the most semiconductor design firms, the second most manufacturing facilities. TSMC is mostly in Taiwan and the United States; and they seem to manufacture a lot of microcontrollers, WiFi chips, and things that you mention. Scaling up capacity for almost anything you mentioned would be a bit expensive, but ultimately not crippling.

flachsechs 9y ago

> China is playing a long game the majority of people in the west, the US especially, thinks all china does is make cheap walmart crap. it's perfectly fine to say horrible, racist things about the chinese. nobody seems to care. what's really happening is the chinese government runs the show and facilitates the dumping of cheap stuff into the west to manage expectations/anxiety about their rise, and to fund the real manufacturing and mineral extraction empire. if your competition doesn't take you seriously, that's a net asset, not a liability. "All warfare is based on deception."

microcolonel 9y ago
Boy, they really messed up at that, letting folks like DJI tool up and export high quality goods.
Dylan16807 9y ago
> it's perfectly fine to say horrible, racist things about the chinese. No it's not. The common criticisms have absolutely nothing to do with race.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- flachsechs 9y ago
  well sure, you can falsify my statement by simply not classifying anything as racism. i think the gleeful enthusiasm shown by people relentlessly china-bashing is telling, especially since they seem to do it all the time, as if they've found a loophole to freely express their hatred. if nothing else it's a great little vehicle for racists to hop onto guilt-free.
pm90 9y ago
This is a good point and reading it gave me the shivers. Let's not forget that for most of Civilized human existence, China has been the world's foremost economic and cultural power (except perhaps the Roman Empire). Chinese leaders are pretty well aware of that and yearn to put modern China back in its original place. And unlike the US, they don't have to deal with meddlesome democratic system in their march to economic and military supremacy.

Retric 9y ago

US imports less than 1/10th as much from China as it manufactures. Overall, US manufactures more stuff today than at any point in it's history. Clothing, Cars, CPU's, Candy, Cosmetics, Cameras, etc. The DoD has done a great job of having US suppliers for every good it needs which demonstrates the US can still manufacture all critical goods independently. Even if it would have to ramp up production of various things. As mind-blowing as it might seem the US has minimal dependence on China. In part because it exports several times more $ worth of goods ~1.3 trillion to the world than it imports from China ~0.46 Trillion.

thebrettd 9y ago
Is any of that 1.3 trillion in exported goods a value-add on top on goods imported from China?
- Retric 9y ago
  Generally not much simply because of shipping issues. Components may be sourced from China, but you can just as easily source most things from somewhere else.
toephu2 9y ago
You listed zero sources for any of your so-called "facts".

nerfhammer 9y ago

US manufacturing output hasn't declined overall, it's just manufacturing employment that has declined. The US can make all of the things you mentioned, though it's often more expensive.

microcolonel 9y ago

The United States is host to the most semiconductor design firms, the second most manufacturing facilities. TSMC is mostly in Taiwan and the United States; and they seem to manufacture a lot of microcontrollers, WiFi chips, and things that you mention. Scaling up capacity for almost anything you mentioned would be a bit expensive, but ultimately not crippling.