5 ms·

Frankly speaking, if we're going to be tracked (and we are, lots and lots), I want the government as involved as possible, whether through strict regulations or

by Frondo 9y ago

Frankly speaking, if we're going to be tracked (and we are, lots and lots), I want the government as involved as possible, whether through strict regulations or through being the central repository for that information. Maybe do it state-by-state, so long as each state follows some federal guidelines and each state provides a way to interoperate with the rest, and with private businesses that need access to that information, if the feds freak you out. Why? Because I can, in theory, have my say in how the government operates. I can vote, I can submit comments, I can go talk to elected officials, whatever. I have zero recourse when private companies schlep my data around and wreck my life. Voting with your vote is best, but I can't even vote with my dollar with Equifax.

turk184 9y ago
You have too much faith in government--voting has not reined in the rogue elements of the US government. Far from it. $2Trillion budget, black programs, black sites, renditions, and then plenty of run of the mill bullcrap going on, too like IRS targeting groups for political purposes, ATF "gun walking" schemes that backfired, PATRIOT Act, mass surveillance programs, do I need to even go on?
blowski 9y ago
Totally agree with you. I know people who refuse to vote, use doctors, etc, to "prevent the government getting data about them" - but are registered on Facebook, Google, carry a smartphone, etc. I don't understand how people can be so paranoid about the government, and simultaneously so trusting of large corporations.
- nopzor 9y ago
  I think people who have that view feel that corporations can't arrest you, can't seize your assets, can't restrict your travel, etc etc.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    Let me tell them about two little companies called United Fruit and Standard Fruit... (now Chiquita and Dole respectively)
  - devdas 9y ago
    Like say, the East India Company?
- jnicholasp 9y ago
  The opposite condition also exists: I don't understand how some people can be so paranoid about large corporations, and so trusting of government. They are both merely human organizations with large powers, and subject to corruption. We should be wary of both of them.
  - zvpxdlk 9y ago
    The difference is that governments are made up of people who are voted in
    - kazinator 9y ago
      That's hardly the case. Firstly, examples of governments that have any people voted in at all are cherry-picked. Around the world, there are governments that are not voted in, or are "voted" in by a sham process which only has the external appearances of democracy. Secondly, in democracies, a fairly common pattern is that the government consists of some seats that are voted in (parliament) plus some that are appointed (senate). The power is divided accordingly. (A minor point is that it is not uncommon for the leader of the elected party to appoint people for the uppermost staff positions: a so-called "cabinet" or whatever.) Thirdly, government in the broad sense includes not only the parliament and senate political structure but all of the institutions of the government that actually get various things done throughout the governed region, and all the levels of bureaucracy employing large numbers of people. All of that staff is not elected; they are just people hired into positions and they generally keep those positions across government changes. That bureaucracy has considerable power of its own; not every single decision they make which affects you goes through a parliamentarian that you elected!
    - jnicholasp 9y ago
      For one, as kazinator said in the sibling comment, even in the best democracies this is only true of a small percentage of government jobs - there are many powerful agencies and influential staff positions that are not elected and therefore not subject to the oversight of the people over whom that power is exercised. Two, yes, many of the highest profile, and most powerful, positions are elected. And in practice, over time, this means that these positions have selected for people who are 'electable' - which has itself over time come to mean people who can raise huge amounts of campaign money. This is a deeply corruptible situation, if indeed it is not already deeply corrupted. I agree with the idea that open public oversight is a powerful corrective, and is a major difference between private organizations and public ones with effective means for perceiving and removing corrupt officials. I think it is highly questionable to what degree the latter describes our current situation in much even of the democratized West.
Spooky23 9y ago
He's a nasty one - my wife got a big box in the mail from Enfamil last week. "Congratulations on your new baby, here's some stuff to get you started!" One problem. She didn't know that she had been pregnant and suffered a near fatal (to her) complication and miscarriage 7.5 months ago. Only a few parties were aware of this: My family (not posted on Facebook), two health insurance companies, the hospital, two pharmacies and the Ob/Gyn practice. Last week would have been the due date. One of more of those entities, who are all supposed to protecting her privacy failed to do so to extract a few more bucks.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  > One of more of those entities, who are all supposed to protecting her privacy failed to do so to extract a few more bucks. I would suggest that that is not "failing to protect" private data, but "actively exploiting".

by Frondo 9y ago

turk184 9y ago

You have too much faith in government--voting has not reined in the rogue elements of the US government. Far from it. $2Trillion budget, black programs, black sites, renditions, and then plenty of run of the mill bullcrap going on, too like IRS targeting groups for political purposes, ATF "gun walking" schemes that backfired, PATRIOT Act, mass surveillance programs, do I need to even go on?

blowski 9y ago

Totally agree with you. I know people who refuse to vote, use doctors, etc, to "prevent the government getting data about them" - but are registered on Facebook, Google, carry a smartphone, etc. I don't understand how people can be so paranoid about the government, and simultaneously so trusting of large corporations.

nopzor 9y ago
I think people who have that view feel that corporations can't arrest you, can't seize your assets, can't restrict your travel, etc etc.
- ethbro 9y ago
  Let me tell them about two little companies called United Fruit and Standard Fruit... (now Chiquita and Dole respectively)
- devdas 9y ago
  Like say, the East India Company?
jnicholasp 9y ago
The opposite condition also exists: I don't understand how some people can be so paranoid about large corporations, and so trusting of government. They are both merely human organizations with large powers, and subject to corruption. We should be wary of both of them.
- zvpxdlk 9y ago
  The difference is that governments are made up of people who are voted in
  - kazinator 9y ago
    That's hardly the case. Firstly, examples of governments that have any people voted in at all are cherry-picked. Around the world, there are governments that are not voted in, or are "voted" in by a sham process which only has the external appearances of democracy. Secondly, in democracies, a fairly common pattern is that the government consists of some seats that are voted in (parliament) plus some that are appointed (senate). The power is divided accordingly. (A minor point is that it is not uncommon for the leader of the elected party to appoint people for the uppermost staff positions: a so-called "cabinet" or whatever.) Thirdly, government in the broad sense includes not only the parliament and senate political structure but all of the institutions of the government that actually get various things done throughout the governed region, and all the levels of bureaucracy employing large numbers of people. All of that staff is not elected; they are just people hired into positions and they generally keep those positions across government changes. That bureaucracy has considerable power of its own; not every single decision they make which affects you goes through a parliamentarian that you elected!
  - jnicholasp 9y ago
    For one, as kazinator said in the sibling comment, even in the best democracies this is only true of a small percentage of government jobs - there are many powerful agencies and influential staff positions that are not elected and therefore not subject to the oversight of the people over whom that power is exercised. Two, yes, many of the highest profile, and most powerful, positions are elected. And in practice, over time, this means that these positions have selected for people who are 'electable' - which has itself over time come to mean people who can raise huge amounts of campaign money. This is a deeply corruptible situation, if indeed it is not already deeply corrupted. I agree with the idea that open public oversight is a powerful corrective, and is a major difference between private organizations and public ones with effective means for perceiving and removing corrupt officials. I think it is highly questionable to what degree the latter describes our current situation in much even of the democratized West.

Spooky23 9y ago

He's a nasty one - my wife got a big box in the mail from Enfamil last week. "Congratulations on your new baby, here's some stuff to get you started!" One problem. She didn't know that she had been pregnant and suffered a near fatal (to her) complication and miscarriage 7.5 months ago. Only a few parties were aware of this: My family (not posted on Facebook), two health insurance companies, the hospital, two pharmacies and the Ob/Gyn practice. Last week would have been the due date. One of more of those entities, who are all supposed to protecting her privacy failed to do so to extract a few more bucks.

FireBeyond 9y ago
> One of more of those entities, who are all supposed to protecting her privacy failed to do so to extract a few more bucks. I would suggest that that is not "failing to protect" private data, but "actively exploiting".