6 ms·

Compared to most companies, their CEOs don't change that much. The last one stayed on for life, for example. And with regard to displeasing shareholders - Tim

Compared to most companies, their CEOs don't change that much. The last one stayed on for life, for example. And with regard to displeasing shareholders - Tim Cook has no problem with that - to quote, "if you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock." http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-versus-a-conservative-think-tank-2014-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-versus-a-conservativ...

FussyZeus 9y ago
He's not as bad as Steve Ballmer for example - though you can draw many parallels - but he's never had the vision Jobs had. iPhones and iPads are going well, but the Mac is suffering badly under Cook because it has such a low return. I hope he proves me wrong, but at this point I'm very worried about the future of the Mac.
- tertius 9y ago
  At this point? The Mac has not been one of their main products for almost a decade.
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    I don't disagree, but there was a definite tonal shift in how it was handled shortly after Cook took over. Jobs seemed to recognize that the Mac was a tool used by their pro/developer userbase that helped make not only the App Store the envy of Google and Microsoft in terms of the variety and quality of the software available, but as a big draw for the deep-pocketed developer community as a whole. Cook doesn't seem to get that, a problem that was on flagrant display when they unveiled the Macbook Pro last year, with a gimmicky input mechanism no one wanted, and no first-party displays to go with it. In other words: It was a niche product and always has been, but that niche has played a large role in the success of iOS. It should be one of Apple's primary concerns to keep them happy.
    - tertius 9y ago
      I think we agree here on the importance of the Mac. I don't know how real the difference between Jobs and Cook is regarding the product line. They worked together for a long time and what you're saying seems like the romantic apple media. True to a degree probably though.
      - FussyZeus 9y ago
        Jobs had the vision, Cook had the business smarts to make it happen. Since Jobs passing, Apple has frequently felt like a rudderless ship. Cook is a great manager and a great businessman, no doubt at all, but he doesn't have the passion Jobs had and it shows.
        intoverflow2 9y ago
        Pretty much, Jobs thoughts on sales/marketing people driving companies more relevant than ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM
  - dasil003 9y ago
    You mean the platform where iOS development happens? I beg to differ. Just because iPhone, maybe the biggest consumer phenomenon the world has ever known, is bigger than the Mac, does not mean the Mac is not one of their "main products". 10 years ago is when Apple started to neglect the Mac Pro, and the Mac Mini is embarrassing, but the rest of the line has been doing great in sales and attention from Apple save a few missteps here and there.
    - tertius 9y ago
      The sales numbers compared to their main products is tiny. > You mean the platform where iOS development happens? Yes, that one. I doubt "iOS developers" can keep Apple alive.
      - matwood 9y ago
        > The sales numbers compared to their main products is tiny. In q3, mac sales represented ~12% of revenue which is greater than the iPads ~11%. I wouldn't exactly call it tiny.
        _jal 9y ago
        Yes, and it is also important to remember that "tiny", when referring to an Apple product line, means "if it were a freestanding company, it would be in the F500".
        tertius 9y ago
        They're also very expensive products. I'd look at numbers sold over 5 years. And yes, I guess tiny is not a good word, still very small.
    - intoverflow2 9y ago
      > and the Mac Mini is embarrassing Embarrassing is an understatement, I'd say it's overtly consumer hostile https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/1000779/large_7cbe8b3f86c04bb02d5b889ec6b04350.jpg https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/1000779/large_7cbe8b3f... 2012 Mac Mini on the left; 2014 Mac Mini on the right. The unscrewable bottom was one of the championed features when this design initially launched
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  This might have been a reasonable stance a year ago, but they just publicly committed to making new Mac Pros and monitors, plus they have already announced a $5k iMac Pro. Tim Cook is no Steve Job, but Steve Jobs was no Tim Cook. They’re good at different thing, but Tim Cook will probably go down in history as one of the greatest CEOs of all time.
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    He's a good operator, but not a great visionary. I'm not sure whether we'll ever see a new ground breaking product again developed by Apple. Most of the stuff they've been doing since 2012 have been minor iterations on existing stuff.
    - dionian 9y ago
      But he didn't fire Jony Ive
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      At least all the minor iteration results in products that work rather than broken piles of unicorn shit.
    - fhood 9y ago
      Maybe not, Jobs was a visionary, just look at how the iPhone has changed the world. But I think Apple has gotten big enough that so long as they can maintain their design and quality standards, they will be ok.
    - goatforce5 9y ago
      2012 wasn't that long ago, and it's not clear if any ground breaking products have really captured the imagination of the public in the last 5 years.
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      I guess I take a pretty different view of technological progress. IMO, a lot of technological breakthrough is basically just waiting around until the underlying technologies are ready. The original iPod was only possible because one of Apple's suppliers happened to make a 1.8" disk drive. iPhone and iPod were only possible because flash storage, batteries, screens, and mobile processors all got to a point where the original iPhone was (barely) viable as a product. Apple can't just will that the underlying technologies which will make autonomous cars or AR glasses possible come into existence now. They can nudge things a little here and there, but, for the most part, they have to wait just like everybody else. Regarding Tim Cook: my take on Steve Jobs is that his most recognized success at Apple was creating the best products in the world. His collaborator for this was Jony Ive. But he had another accomplishment that is much less recognized: he put a tremendous amount of energy into building Apple the company. His collaborator for this was Tim Cook. IMO, while Tim Cook may not be a product visionary, I think he is unrivaled as a business visionary. Calling him merely a "good" operator does the man a tremendous disservice. Nothing about the way Apple operates is typical. Their organizational structure is almost unheard of for a company of their size, they refresh almost their entire product portfolio every year, they release 3 new operating systems every year, they rarely make acquisitions, but when they do, it almost always works out. They have built an utterly dominating advantage in mobile processors. Etc, etc.
- specialist 9y ago
  The key to understanding Apple is to listen to what they're saying. They see the Mac like a truck. Yes, most people will buy cars, but we'll always need trucks too. Further, best as I can tell, Mac continues to grow, both fraction of new sales and installed base.
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    Except their new truck isn't a workhorse, and that's the problem with it. I'm not saying EVERY Mac has to be a Macbook Pro. There are two product lines (Air, and the standard Macbook) that should be a little "softer" for the consumer level. The Macbook Pro though was always supposed to be a really powerful, well equipped workhorse, and switching to all USB-C for no other reason than thinness? That's totally fine for a Macbook, and totally irritating for a Macbook PRO. Also, the gimmicky as hell trash can Pro with no meaningful upgradability was a slap in the face to anyone who loved the silver full tower BEASTS that preceded it. We STILL have some of those in service than were manufactured in 2008.
    - specialist 9y ago
      Then buy a different truck. Or roll your own hackintosh.
      - FussyZeus 9y ago
        You're missing my point, I feel like intentionally but I'll explain either way: By having both consumer-oriented and pro-oriented hardware, Apple makes the most of the (admittedly limited) Mac marketplace. Plus, the simple fact is you cannot hackintosh a PC that would be equivalent to even a late 2012 Macbook Pro in terms of reliability, battery life and portability.
    - ricw 9y ago
      I love usb-c. It’s extremely convenient when travelling to only have to take one charger and a usb switch for all 4 devices. I also find it far more convenient when working. One usb-c plug to plug into my entire work desk (monitor, backup hard drive, power, various chargers and connector cables). Perhaps you haven’t invested in a decent usb-c switch? Only upsides for me so far.
- justacat 9y ago
  Apple has definitely lacked vision since Jobs left, it has been the biggest issue in my opinion for them as a company. Cook has a lot of very valuable skills, but I've still found myself wondering, "What the what is going on at Apple!!..." (In a negative way)
  - intoverflow2 9y ago
    Someone there has some kind of vision, doesn't mean it's a good one but there was a definite attempt to shove most MBP customers into using iPad Pro and the Mac Pro line probably only survived by a very slim margin. It's pretty obvious the iMac Pro was supposed to replace the Mac Pro lineup (despite having all the same problems) then at the last minute they decided to start working on a New New Mac Pro. Not sure who has this vision if it's Tim, Ive or someone else but whoever it is they don't respect the idea of an actual computer like Jobs did. From what has been reported Cook doesn't even use a laptop anymore.

FussyZeus 9y ago

He's not as bad as Steve Ballmer for example - though you can draw many parallels - but he's never had the vision Jobs had. iPhones and iPads are going well, but the Mac is suffering badly under Cook because it has such a low return. I hope he proves me wrong, but at this point I'm very worried about the future of the Mac.

tertius 9y ago
At this point? The Mac has not been one of their main products for almost a decade.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  I don't disagree, but there was a definite tonal shift in how it was handled shortly after Cook took over. Jobs seemed to recognize that the Mac was a tool used by their pro/developer userbase that helped make not only the App Store the envy of Google and Microsoft in terms of the variety and quality of the software available, but as a big draw for the deep-pocketed developer community as a whole. Cook doesn't seem to get that, a problem that was on flagrant display when they unveiled the Macbook Pro last year, with a gimmicky input mechanism no one wanted, and no first-party displays to go with it. In other words: It was a niche product and always has been, but that niche has played a large role in the success of iOS. It should be one of Apple's primary concerns to keep them happy.
  - tertius 9y ago
    I think we agree here on the importance of the Mac. I don't know how real the difference between Jobs and Cook is regarding the product line. They worked together for a long time and what you're saying seems like the romantic apple media. True to a degree probably though.
    - FussyZeus 9y ago
      Jobs had the vision, Cook had the business smarts to make it happen. Since Jobs passing, Apple has frequently felt like a rudderless ship. Cook is a great manager and a great businessman, no doubt at all, but he doesn't have the passion Jobs had and it shows.
      - intoverflow2 9y ago
        Pretty much, Jobs thoughts on sales/marketing people driving companies more relevant than ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM
- dasil003 9y ago
  You mean the platform where iOS development happens? I beg to differ. Just because iPhone, maybe the biggest consumer phenomenon the world has ever known, is bigger than the Mac, does not mean the Mac is not one of their "main products". 10 years ago is when Apple started to neglect the Mac Pro, and the Mac Mini is embarrassing, but the rest of the line has been doing great in sales and attention from Apple save a few missteps here and there.
  - tertius 9y ago
    The sales numbers compared to their main products is tiny. > You mean the platform where iOS development happens? Yes, that one. I doubt "iOS developers" can keep Apple alive.
    - matwood 9y ago
      > The sales numbers compared to their main products is tiny. In q3, mac sales represented ~12% of revenue which is greater than the iPads ~11%. I wouldn't exactly call it tiny.
      - _jal 9y ago
        Yes, and it is also important to remember that "tiny", when referring to an Apple product line, means "if it were a freestanding company, it would be in the F500".
      - tertius 9y ago
        They're also very expensive products. I'd look at numbers sold over 5 years. And yes, I guess tiny is not a good word, still very small.
  - intoverflow2 9y ago
    > and the Mac Mini is embarrassing Embarrassing is an understatement, I'd say it's overtly consumer hostile https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/1000779/large_7cbe8b3f86c04bb02d5b889ec6b04350.jpg https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/1000779/large_7cbe8b3f... 2012 Mac Mini on the left; 2014 Mac Mini on the right. The unscrewable bottom was one of the championed features when this design initially launched
toasterlovin 9y ago
This might have been a reasonable stance a year ago, but they just publicly committed to making new Mac Pros and monitors, plus they have already announced a $5k iMac Pro. Tim Cook is no Steve Job, but Steve Jobs was no Tim Cook. They’re good at different thing, but Tim Cook will probably go down in history as one of the greatest CEOs of all time.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  He's a good operator, but not a great visionary. I'm not sure whether we'll ever see a new ground breaking product again developed by Apple. Most of the stuff they've been doing since 2012 have been minor iterations on existing stuff.
  - dionian 9y ago
    But he didn't fire Jony Ive
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    At least all the minor iteration results in products that work rather than broken piles of unicorn shit.
  - fhood 9y ago
    Maybe not, Jobs was a visionary, just look at how the iPhone has changed the world. But I think Apple has gotten big enough that so long as they can maintain their design and quality standards, they will be ok.
  - goatforce5 9y ago
    2012 wasn't that long ago, and it's not clear if any ground breaking products have really captured the imagination of the public in the last 5 years.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    I guess I take a pretty different view of technological progress. IMO, a lot of technological breakthrough is basically just waiting around until the underlying technologies are ready. The original iPod was only possible because one of Apple's suppliers happened to make a 1.8" disk drive. iPhone and iPod were only possible because flash storage, batteries, screens, and mobile processors all got to a point where the original iPhone was (barely) viable as a product. Apple can't just will that the underlying technologies which will make autonomous cars or AR glasses possible come into existence now. They can nudge things a little here and there, but, for the most part, they have to wait just like everybody else. Regarding Tim Cook: my take on Steve Jobs is that his most recognized success at Apple was creating the best products in the world. His collaborator for this was Jony Ive. But he had another accomplishment that is much less recognized: he put a tremendous amount of energy into building Apple the company. His collaborator for this was Tim Cook. IMO, while Tim Cook may not be a product visionary, I think he is unrivaled as a business visionary. Calling him merely a "good" operator does the man a tremendous disservice. Nothing about the way Apple operates is typical. Their organizational structure is almost unheard of for a company of their size, they refresh almost their entire product portfolio every year, they release 3 new operating systems every year, they rarely make acquisitions, but when they do, it almost always works out. They have built an utterly dominating advantage in mobile processors. Etc, etc.
specialist 9y ago
The key to understanding Apple is to listen to what they're saying. They see the Mac like a truck. Yes, most people will buy cars, but we'll always need trucks too. Further, best as I can tell, Mac continues to grow, both fraction of new sales and installed base.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  Except their new truck isn't a workhorse, and that's the problem with it. I'm not saying EVERY Mac has to be a Macbook Pro. There are two product lines (Air, and the standard Macbook) that should be a little "softer" for the consumer level. The Macbook Pro though was always supposed to be a really powerful, well equipped workhorse, and switching to all USB-C for no other reason than thinness? That's totally fine for a Macbook, and totally irritating for a Macbook PRO. Also, the gimmicky as hell trash can Pro with no meaningful upgradability was a slap in the face to anyone who loved the silver full tower BEASTS that preceded it. We STILL have some of those in service than were manufactured in 2008.
  - specialist 9y ago
    Then buy a different truck. Or roll your own hackintosh.
    - FussyZeus 9y ago
      You're missing my point, I feel like intentionally but I'll explain either way: By having both consumer-oriented and pro-oriented hardware, Apple makes the most of the (admittedly limited) Mac marketplace. Plus, the simple fact is you cannot hackintosh a PC that would be equivalent to even a late 2012 Macbook Pro in terms of reliability, battery life and portability.
  - ricw 9y ago
    I love usb-c. It’s extremely convenient when travelling to only have to take one charger and a usb switch for all 4 devices. I also find it far more convenient when working. One usb-c plug to plug into my entire work desk (monitor, backup hard drive, power, various chargers and connector cables). Perhaps you haven’t invested in a decent usb-c switch? Only upsides for me so far.
justacat 9y ago
Apple has definitely lacked vision since Jobs left, it has been the biggest issue in my opinion for them as a company. Cook has a lot of very valuable skills, but I've still found myself wondering, "What the what is going on at Apple!!..." (In a negative way)
- intoverflow2 9y ago
  Someone there has some kind of vision, doesn't mean it's a good one but there was a definite attempt to shove most MBP customers into using iPad Pro and the Mac Pro line probably only survived by a very slim margin. It's pretty obvious the iMac Pro was supposed to replace the Mac Pro lineup (despite having all the same problems) then at the last minute they decided to start working on a New New Mac Pro. Not sure who has this vision if it's Tim, Ive or someone else but whoever it is they don't respect the idea of an actual computer like Jobs did. From what has been reported Cook doesn't even use a laptop anymore.