6 ms·

"Does right by users" is quite a claim, to deprive users of targeted advertising. Be aware of this - we all know advertising is abused, and has tired users - b

"Does right by users" is quite a claim, to deprive users of targeted advertising. Be aware of this - we all know advertising is abused, and has tired users - but it's tricky to find a vendor of hardware being the gate keeper of such stance. Next step is main media groups start to block safari browsers.

AckSyn 9y ago
That won't happen. The media groups wouldn't alienate potential customers because of their browser choice, not these days.
- libertine 9y ago
  They wouldn't alienate, just force them to switch browsers. This is a direct threat to their business models, and we all know desperate times call for desperate measures - specially on industries that work with thin margins already, and are getting pressured for high quality inventory.
  - designcode 9y ago
    Switch to what browser ? On iOS there’s no switching
  - chongli 9y ago
    It's not going to happen. Users will switch websites before they switch browsers. Any media site that defects from the Safari boycott will stand to pick up a lot of users. Boycotts don't work.
    - libertine 9y ago
      It's all about costs. Probably the next step is stop targeting safari browsers through programmatic buying, and if the inventory of safari browser users is worthless, publishers will act I think.
      - matwood 9y ago
        Except iPhone (where most usage of Safari comes from) users have consistently shown to be affluent and spend more money than other phone users. They are the exact users every advertiser wants.
        libertine 9y ago
        That makes no sense... iPhone users spend more money... on what? Android Apps? Nail trimmers?
        matwood 9y ago
        I'm being trolled at this point, but okay: On apps: http://fortune.com/2014/06/27/apples-users-spend-4x-as-much-as-googles/ http://fortune.com/2014/06/27/apples-users-spend-4x-as-much-... And in general: https://www.neowin.net/news/ios-users-spend-more-money-online-than-android-users-study-reveals https://www.neowin.net/news/ios-users-spend-more-money-onlin...
        libertine 9y ago
        You're assuming that because Apple users spend more on App Store or online, means they are the most valuable target for advertising - that makes no sense at all. That's not how marketing works.
        AckSyn 9y ago
        Except that's exactly how it works. The parallel between how users spend money on apps reflects how they spend elsewhere is very real and similar.
konceptz 9y ago
Apple is not just a vendor of hardware. Would it be less tricky if it was an operating system vendor? If one of the Linux distros packages a default browser with this block would you say the same?
- libertine 9y ago
  You're right! Yes, I think I would say the same. Same apply for Microsoft, with Edge. The claim of privacy, might support isolation and that's how you start to build bubbles around people. We should keep in sight what's the goal of targeted advertising - is to deliver relevant a message to the right users. It's heavily abused, indeed, and it should be revised. But deprive the capacity of segmentation from a brand that know's everything about you - which Apple does - it's just not right imo.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    > The claim of privacy, might support isolation and that's how you start to build bubbles around people. This is completely backwards. Tracking is what allows Facebook et al. to build bubbles around people by "delivering relevant messages to the right users". Privacy is about users having control about what information companies collect about them and how that information is used. If I don't want companies to track my information (because I don't find targetting at all useful) I should be able to make that choice and ad companies should respect it. The fact that they "work around" tracking protections, as described in the article, is pretty despicable.
    - libertine 9y ago
      That's the catch of all this - indeed targeting creates bubbles, but building walls do the exact same thing. > I should be able to make that choice and ad companies should respect it Exactly - you should make that choice, not Apple by default.
  - codyb 9y ago
    Apple doesn't know everything about me, nor do they want to. Where are you getting your information?
rsynnott 9y ago
> deprive users of targeted advertising Poor users, deprived of the joys of targeted advertising :(
- libertine 9y ago
  You would rather be blasted with pet snake food, hemorrhoids cream and nail polish - over the laptop with a drop in price after you visited a website and added it to the cart. But if giving all your biometrics data to Apple and limit yourself to their brand is the way to go - mate, you're using the right products. In a near future your world will be all-Apple, and you won't even notice.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    When tracking "works" I'm blasted with ads for products I just bought for weeks. Never mind that on a fundamental level I should be able to choose whether ad companies get to track me or not. You can turn tracking on if you wish. I'd prefer to leave it off. What you seem to be advocating for is a world where no one can turn tracking off.
    - libertine 9y ago
      > When tracking "works" I'm blasted with ads for products I just bought for weeks. Never mind that on a fundamental level I should be able to choose whether ad companies get to track me or not. Those are still malpractices. I'm not claiming it's perfect - far from it - but I think it is useful in all the chaos. No, I'm just stating that it shouldn't be up to Apple to decide it.
  - codyb 9y ago
    ? You don't give your biometrics data to anyone when you use touch or faceId. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Right now Apple _might_ be a dominant share in the SmartWatch category but certainly not in any other category they produce products in (phones, tv boxes, computers). In a current future some people buy almost everything through Amazon, do all their socializing with Facebook, and do all their e-mailing and internet searching with google. All three of those comoanies track you as you go around the web and exploit every little bit of information they can to build expansive profiles about people in the world. Apple doesn't track you around the web and is (and has, they stopped apps from tracking users in particular ways in the past) activitely making it harder for entities to follow you around the web. Kudos to Apple.
AlexandrB 9y ago
> to deprive users of targeted advertising Oh wow! I didn't realize that having my browsing habits picked through by corporations just to show me ads for products I already bought was such a huge honour. Thanks for this. > Next step is main media groups start to block safari browsers. That'll be awesome, I won't have to guess which sites respect my privacy since the ones that don't will just fail to load.
- libertine 9y ago
  It's not an honor, it is what is it. Advertising won't go away - it's the difference of seeing relevant communication to you, or get all shit. But giving all your information to Apple, is somehow, ok. They know who you are, if you'll buy the next iphone, they target advertising at you through their own mediums... but that's fine. > That'll be awesome, I won't have to guess which sites respect my privacy since the ones that don't will just fail to load. Soon your world will be all Apple. Amen. You complain about targeted advertising, but you don't complain about the walls that are being built around you - probably cause you can't see them since they're being built brick by brick.
  - rf15 9y ago
    >it's the difference of seeing relevant communication to you There is no relevant communication from any advertiser to me. When I need something or want to know about things, I research it. Other information might come from friends and family. I do not care about what a to-me-unknown third party thinks a product is worth (including my attention), because their entire agenda is to bullshit me into buying something REGARDLESS of the need or quality of the product they talk about.
    - libertine 9y ago
      Be aware of that stance - you are getting influenced by advertising, do not make the mistake of thinking you're not - because that's when you have all your cognitive defenses down. Be critic. Research is influenced by advertisers, that's why you have copy writers, SEO specialists, influencers, and millions of dollars supporting it. Mate you're a sitting duck.
spo81rty 9y ago
I would prefer targeted TV ads as well. I really don't need to see ads for Viagra and other stupid things.
redial 9y ago
> Be aware of this - we all know advertising is abused, and has tired users - but it's tricky to find a vendor of hardware being the gate keeper of such stance. Advertising is abused. End of story. People are starting to realize they can let it affect their life, or prefer products that respect it. Someone is gonna have access at some point to that information, there is no way around it. You seem to be on the side of letting anybody get access to it. Others do not want that and think they can trust Apple to guard it. It's their choice, it is not the advertiser's. The worst that can happen is Apple fails to honor its promise, and then well be back where we started. I don't know why, maybe you are part of the ad industry, maybe you just like to have no privacy, but your emotional appeal to a dark Apple-owned future full of zombies is cartoonish at best.
whipoodle 9y ago
> Next step is main media groups start to block safari browsers. That would be an interesting development. I doubt it.
criddell 9y ago
You can probably opt out if you really miss the ads.

AckSyn 9y ago

That won't happen. The media groups wouldn't alienate potential customers because of their browser choice, not these days.

libertine 9y ago
They wouldn't alienate, just force them to switch browsers. This is a direct threat to their business models, and we all know desperate times call for desperate measures - specially on industries that work with thin margins already, and are getting pressured for high quality inventory.
- designcode 9y ago
  Switch to what browser ? On iOS there’s no switching
- chongli 9y ago
  It's not going to happen. Users will switch websites before they switch browsers. Any media site that defects from the Safari boycott will stand to pick up a lot of users. Boycotts don't work.
  - libertine 9y ago
    It's all about costs. Probably the next step is stop targeting safari browsers through programmatic buying, and if the inventory of safari browser users is worthless, publishers will act I think.
    - matwood 9y ago
      Except iPhone (where most usage of Safari comes from) users have consistently shown to be affluent and spend more money than other phone users. They are the exact users every advertiser wants.
      - libertine 9y ago
        That makes no sense... iPhone users spend more money... on what? Android Apps? Nail trimmers?
        matwood 9y ago
        I'm being trolled at this point, but okay: On apps: http://fortune.com/2014/06/27/apples-users-spend-4x-as-much-as-googles/ http://fortune.com/2014/06/27/apples-users-spend-4x-as-much-... And in general: https://www.neowin.net/news/ios-users-spend-more-money-online-than-android-users-study-reveals https://www.neowin.net/news/ios-users-spend-more-money-onlin...
        libertine 9y ago
        You're assuming that because Apple users spend more on App Store or online, means they are the most valuable target for advertising - that makes no sense at all. That's not how marketing works.
        AckSyn 9y ago
        Except that's exactly how it works. The parallel between how users spend money on apps reflects how they spend elsewhere is very real and similar.

konceptz 9y ago

Apple is not just a vendor of hardware. Would it be less tricky if it was an operating system vendor? If one of the Linux distros packages a default browser with this block would you say the same?

libertine 9y ago
You're right! Yes, I think I would say the same. Same apply for Microsoft, with Edge. The claim of privacy, might support isolation and that's how you start to build bubbles around people. We should keep in sight what's the goal of targeted advertising - is to deliver relevant a message to the right users. It's heavily abused, indeed, and it should be revised. But deprive the capacity of segmentation from a brand that know's everything about you - which Apple does - it's just not right imo.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  > The claim of privacy, might support isolation and that's how you start to build bubbles around people. This is completely backwards. Tracking is what allows Facebook et al. to build bubbles around people by "delivering relevant messages to the right users". Privacy is about users having control about what information companies collect about them and how that information is used. If I don't want companies to track my information (because I don't find targetting at all useful) I should be able to make that choice and ad companies should respect it. The fact that they "work around" tracking protections, as described in the article, is pretty despicable.
  - libertine 9y ago
    That's the catch of all this - indeed targeting creates bubbles, but building walls do the exact same thing. > I should be able to make that choice and ad companies should respect it Exactly - you should make that choice, not Apple by default.
- codyb 9y ago
  Apple doesn't know everything about me, nor do they want to. Where are you getting your information?

rsynnott 9y ago

> deprive users of targeted advertising Poor users, deprived of the joys of targeted advertising :(

libertine 9y ago
You would rather be blasted with pet snake food, hemorrhoids cream and nail polish - over the laptop with a drop in price after you visited a website and added it to the cart. But if giving all your biometrics data to Apple and limit yourself to their brand is the way to go - mate, you're using the right products. In a near future your world will be all-Apple, and you won't even notice.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  When tracking "works" I'm blasted with ads for products I just bought for weeks. Never mind that on a fundamental level I should be able to choose whether ad companies get to track me or not. You can turn tracking on if you wish. I'd prefer to leave it off. What you seem to be advocating for is a world where no one can turn tracking off.
  - libertine 9y ago
    > When tracking "works" I'm blasted with ads for products I just bought for weeks. Never mind that on a fundamental level I should be able to choose whether ad companies get to track me or not. Those are still malpractices. I'm not claiming it's perfect - far from it - but I think it is useful in all the chaos. No, I'm just stating that it shouldn't be up to Apple to decide it.
- codyb 9y ago
  ? You don't give your biometrics data to anyone when you use touch or faceId. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Right now Apple _might_ be a dominant share in the SmartWatch category but certainly not in any other category they produce products in (phones, tv boxes, computers). In a current future some people buy almost everything through Amazon, do all their socializing with Facebook, and do all their e-mailing and internet searching with google. All three of those comoanies track you as you go around the web and exploit every little bit of information they can to build expansive profiles about people in the world. Apple doesn't track you around the web and is (and has, they stopped apps from tracking users in particular ways in the past) activitely making it harder for entities to follow you around the web. Kudos to Apple.

AlexandrB 9y ago

> to deprive users of targeted advertising Oh wow! I didn't realize that having my browsing habits picked through by corporations just to show me ads for products I already bought was such a huge honour. Thanks for this. > Next step is main media groups start to block safari browsers. That'll be awesome, I won't have to guess which sites respect my privacy since the ones that don't will just fail to load.

libertine 9y ago
It's not an honor, it is what is it. Advertising won't go away - it's the difference of seeing relevant communication to you, or get all shit. But giving all your information to Apple, is somehow, ok. They know who you are, if you'll buy the next iphone, they target advertising at you through their own mediums... but that's fine. > That'll be awesome, I won't have to guess which sites respect my privacy since the ones that don't will just fail to load. Soon your world will be all Apple. Amen. You complain about targeted advertising, but you don't complain about the walls that are being built around you - probably cause you can't see them since they're being built brick by brick.
- rf15 9y ago
  >it's the difference of seeing relevant communication to you There is no relevant communication from any advertiser to me. When I need something or want to know about things, I research it. Other information might come from friends and family. I do not care about what a to-me-unknown third party thinks a product is worth (including my attention), because their entire agenda is to bullshit me into buying something REGARDLESS of the need or quality of the product they talk about.
  - libertine 9y ago
    Be aware of that stance - you are getting influenced by advertising, do not make the mistake of thinking you're not - because that's when you have all your cognitive defenses down. Be critic. Research is influenced by advertisers, that's why you have copy writers, SEO specialists, influencers, and millions of dollars supporting it. Mate you're a sitting duck.

spo81rty 9y ago

I would prefer targeted TV ads as well. I really don't need to see ads for Viagra and other stupid things.

redial 9y ago

> Be aware of this - we all know advertising is abused, and has tired users - but it's tricky to find a vendor of hardware being the gate keeper of such stance. Advertising is abused. End of story. People are starting to realize they can let it affect their life, or prefer products that respect it. Someone is gonna have access at some point to that information, there is no way around it. You seem to be on the side of letting anybody get access to it. Others do not want that and think they can trust Apple to guard it. It's their choice, it is not the advertiser's. The worst that can happen is Apple fails to honor its promise, and then well be back where we started. I don't know why, maybe you are part of the ad industry, maybe you just like to have no privacy, but your emotional appeal to a dark Apple-owned future full of zombies is cartoonish at best.

whipoodle 9y ago

> Next step is main media groups start to block safari browsers. That would be an interesting development. I doubt it.

criddell 9y ago

You can probably opt out if you really miss the ads.