10 ms·

Review is not thorough. One huge change in the control center is that the wifi “toggle” doesn’t toggle wifi off anymore (wait what?). It just disconnects from

Review is not thorough. One huge change in the control center is that the wifi “toggle” doesn’t toggle wifi off anymore (wait what?). It just disconnects from the current network and doesn’t reconnect for a minute or so. If you don’t want to be tracked by wifi APs it seems you have to force touch settings into wifi and disable the adapter from there. Huge step backwards IMHO.

Crontab 9y ago
Agreed. That's bad and a lot of people will expect the old functionality.
- darthbanane 9y ago
  It feels like they’re trying to educate me as a user that switching wifi off to save battery is not super smart. It’s true, the difference is minuscule at best (20-30 minutes of battery life) but maybe I want to micromanage to get these 20 minutes. Or because I am concerned about privacy. My take is that if you want to “educate” users on how best to use a feature you must leave them the freedom to do it wrong (depending on the consequences). If you’re right they will do what you want (profit) and if you’re wrong then you have avoided alienating them.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > My take is that if you want to “educate” users on how best to use a feature you must leave them the freedom to do it wrong This is diametrically opposed to Apple's tradition, about which they have been clear and consistent.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Those 20-30 minutes matter when you travel, which is when the iPhone's undersized battery is already a liability. After about a year of wear and tear, a day trip to Manhattan requires an external battery or finding an outlet somewhere. Ditto on killing or removing abusive/"too big to fail" apps like Facebook and Facebook Messenger.
    - scott_s 9y ago
      Before getting on the train to the city, I try to remember to put my phone in battery-save mode preemptively.
  - developer2 9y ago
    Turning off Wifi is not something anyone - whether average or intermediate user - should be needing to do on a frequent basis. Airplane mode already takes care of the primary use case, namely disabling all radios. Someone intending to disable Wifi "temporarily" and then forgetting to re-enable it may wind up paying hundreds of dollars for cellular data. That goes against the "it just works" mentality, which is "Wifi automatically wherever possible. ALWAYS. Cellular as last resort only." Privacy is less of a concern on iOS; the MAC address is rotated frequently specifically to prevent passive tracking. The battery savings are going to be minimal; with Apple's history with these kinds of optimizations, you'd probably save as much battery by reducing screen brightness by only 5%. tldr; There's no real reason outside of developer testing to ever disable Wifi. Users who care should not mind the extra tap. And frankly, most who are obsessively toggling their Wifi are probably not receiving the benefits they believe.
    - simplify 9y ago
      MAC randomization seems to be broken security-wise on iOS: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-break-mac-address-randomization-and-track-100-percent-of-test-devices/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-b...
    - dingaling 9y ago
      > There's no real reason outside of developer testing to ever disable Wifi. When I go for a ramble or cycle in the countryside there's no point having Wifi enabled for four or five hours with no APs within several kilometres, so I disable it. Likewise I disable Bluetooth and GPS when not needed. Being a 'good RF citizen'.
      - dspillett 9y ago
        > Being a 'good RF citizen'. And saving battery power by not having extra radio equipment polling for connection apportunities. Win win.
    - yourewrongagain 9y ago
      Registered for this. This is so wrong. I have iPad and currently I use wifi _only_ to download iOS updates. All the other (voip, netflix and spotify for example) is done over LTE/3G. Why? Because I can. I don't want to be scanned and located by APs or have unnecessary radars in my backpack. tldr; ever heard of terms privacy and need to _not_ use specific networks? kthxbye.
  - zwily 9y ago
    You can turn on airplane mode to turn off all radios, then turn on the radios you want on if you really want to micromanage.
    - 24gttghh 9y ago
      You cannot enable airplane mode and then proceed to enable the cellular radio without first disabling airplane mode. At least you can't on an SE.
      - zwily 9y ago
        Ah, you're right. The other option is force-touching the Settings icon... but the SE doesn't have force-touch, I believe.
        24gttghh 9y ago
        Correct, no force-touch on the SE.
tammer 9y ago
Eh it sounds to me that this is a great quick fix for the "I'm slightly too far from the AP to have bandwidth but I'm still maintaining a connection" problem I have almost daily. Will make an obscure security concern you've identified slightly more difficult to deal with. If you don't prefer trade offs like this, Apple likely isn't the best digital provider for you.
- darthbanane 9y ago
  You’re right it’s an excellent solution to that issue and sometimes it’s exactly what I want. I’m worried about the security aspect because a stock iphone is what you should get if you care about privacy and security yet the UI actively misleads you on the purpose of the toggle. If they wanted a disconnect button they could have designed a new icon for it. Maybe a toast so that people understand what just happened. I found this out the hard way because my phone kept trying to connect to the subway APs and aside from giving them a nice transit map I lost about 30% battery.
  - Terretta 9y ago
    The most common use case is toggling WiFi to drop a bad connection, and then forgetting to turn it back on, costing you who knows how much in LTE data when you’re back at home thinking you’re on WiFi. This UX change is like cash money to most users.
    - heartbreak 9y ago
      Although they did the exact same change for the Bluetooth toggle in the Control Center, and that one has less of a financial benefit. I don't mind the change, but I do wish that the force touch "pop" menu toggles would completely turn off those radios instead of simply disconnecting. For those who haven't used iOS 11, you can force touch the Control Center icons to pop in a full menu with additional toggles.
  - conradev 9y ago
    Apple also randomizes your MAC address when probing to alleviate that privacy concern.
_kush 9y ago
The same is true for the Bluetooth toggle. It just turns it off for any new connections.
- swiley 9y ago
  That's pretty bad for a number of reasons.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Such as?
    - blub 9y ago
      Such as not wanting to get owned when the next bluetooth stack vulnerability inevitably pops up.
walterbell 9y ago
Yikes, this is a security issue. Does airplane mode still turn off wifi and bluetooth?
- darthbanane 9y ago
  It does. You can also see that the adapter is disabled (there is a stroke through the wifi icon then). It’s just the “I’ll quickly turn off wifi/bluetooth” that has gotten harder/misleading.
- potatolicious 9y ago
  Like others have brought up - it isn't a security issue. Since iOS 8 MAC addresses have been randomized until the phone connects to the AP. Your real MAC is not exposed to random listening APs nearby. It's been 3 years since your phone has been giving up its real identity while simply walking around. There may be good reason to want your WiFi radio off (battery?), but the cited privacy issue has been solved on iOS for several years already.
  - et-al 9y ago
    Unfortunately multiple people here, and study posted today[0], have pointed out that MAC address randomization in iOS is still flawed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15287100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15287100
    - ronnier 9y ago
      And remember the wifi hack? https://www.wired.com/story/broadpwn-wi-fi-vulnerability-ios-android/ https://www.wired.com/story/broadpwn-wi-fi-vulnerability-ios... For that reason, I keep my wifi off as much as possible.
  - blub 9y ago
    Your reply seems a bit out of touch, considering the recently discovered and fixed vulnerabilities in the bt and Wi-Fi stacks of iPhones.
diffset 9y ago
The reason the WiFi and Bluetooth controls now work the way they do is to leave Apple's accessories (Watch, Pencil, etc.) connected and working while disconnecting you from other networks and devices.
- blub 9y ago
  It works the same way for people that don't have any accessories paired. To me it looks like a bug TBH.
mrblue182 9y ago
I remember reading that iOS 11 also come with MAC address randoming so that you can't be tracked by wifi.
- dan1234 9y ago
  Pretty sure MAC randomisation has been in since iOS8.
  - grzm 9y ago
    It looks that way: > An information disclosure existed because a stable MAC address was being used to scan for WiFi networks. This issue was addressed by randomizing the MAC address for passive WiFi scans. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201395 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201395
- artificial 9y ago
  Looks like it's been broken across nearly everything. Here's where I read about it. Anyone know if this is addressed? https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-break-mac-address-randomization-and-track-100-percent-of-test-devices/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-b...
archagon 9y ago
Hmm, I figured this was an iOS 11 beta bug? It certainly didn't reconnect reliably after a minute, but would do so maybe once an hour.
mcgarnagle 9y ago
Misleading ui is terrible and making me consider other phone OS. I have wanted a toggle for location services in the control center for so long. Now they are going even further to remove useful functionality like toggling wifi and bluetooth. just horrible. Why is apple moving further away from intuitive ease of use?
_jal 9y ago
Oh, that's really annoying. I turn wifi off when I leave home. More and more things are pushing me to one of the fringe-phone platforms. Which is too bad - I otherwise really like the iPhone.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  But, it's only one extra motion to force click settings, select wifi and toggle wifi off vs swipe up to control panel and click the wifi. I like the new wifi toggle because iPhones are AP sticky usually.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    Except if you have the SE there is no force-touch and you are still forced into the main settings menu. I turn off the WiFi when driving or doing outdoors stuff because I don't want the battery to drain searching for a network for 6 hours...
    - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
      I was not aware that wifi on the SE was that battery inefficient.
      - 24gttghh 9y ago
        Perhaps it is not, but I'm thinking about using this same phone and battery for at least couple more years (had it over a year now) so I like to conserve power where I can.
        scottmf 9y ago
        Battery replacements are cheap
    - bradlys 9y ago
      I don't think you need force touch. From what I've seen people do, you can just long press and it'll be the same as force touching the item.
irrational 9y ago
Is there some sort of interface element that indicates when a setting can use force touch? Or does a user just have to do a long hold on everything to find out what does and doesn't accept force touch?
- MBCook 9y ago
  No, the discoverability problem still exists. You find out by trying it and hoping you remember the answer.

Crontab 9y ago

Agreed. That's bad and a lot of people will expect the old functionality.

darthbanane 9y ago
It feels like they’re trying to educate me as a user that switching wifi off to save battery is not super smart. It’s true, the difference is minuscule at best (20-30 minutes of battery life) but maybe I want to micromanage to get these 20 minutes. Or because I am concerned about privacy. My take is that if you want to “educate” users on how best to use a feature you must leave them the freedom to do it wrong (depending on the consequences). If you’re right they will do what you want (profit) and if you’re wrong then you have avoided alienating them.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > My take is that if you want to “educate” users on how best to use a feature you must leave them the freedom to do it wrong This is diametrically opposed to Apple's tradition, about which they have been clear and consistent.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Those 20-30 minutes matter when you travel, which is when the iPhone's undersized battery is already a liability. After about a year of wear and tear, a day trip to Manhattan requires an external battery or finding an outlet somewhere. Ditto on killing or removing abusive/"too big to fail" apps like Facebook and Facebook Messenger.
  - scott_s 9y ago
    Before getting on the train to the city, I try to remember to put my phone in battery-save mode preemptively.
- developer2 9y ago
  Turning off Wifi is not something anyone - whether average or intermediate user - should be needing to do on a frequent basis. Airplane mode already takes care of the primary use case, namely disabling all radios. Someone intending to disable Wifi "temporarily" and then forgetting to re-enable it may wind up paying hundreds of dollars for cellular data. That goes against the "it just works" mentality, which is "Wifi automatically wherever possible. ALWAYS. Cellular as last resort only." Privacy is less of a concern on iOS; the MAC address is rotated frequently specifically to prevent passive tracking. The battery savings are going to be minimal; with Apple's history with these kinds of optimizations, you'd probably save as much battery by reducing screen brightness by only 5%. tldr; There's no real reason outside of developer testing to ever disable Wifi. Users who care should not mind the extra tap. And frankly, most who are obsessively toggling their Wifi are probably not receiving the benefits they believe.
  - simplify 9y ago
    MAC randomization seems to be broken security-wise on iOS: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-break-mac-address-randomization-and-track-100-percent-of-test-devices/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-b...
  - dingaling 9y ago
    > There's no real reason outside of developer testing to ever disable Wifi. When I go for a ramble or cycle in the countryside there's no point having Wifi enabled for four or five hours with no APs within several kilometres, so I disable it. Likewise I disable Bluetooth and GPS when not needed. Being a 'good RF citizen'.
    - dspillett 9y ago
      > Being a 'good RF citizen'. And saving battery power by not having extra radio equipment polling for connection apportunities. Win win.
  - yourewrongagain 9y ago
    Registered for this. This is so wrong. I have iPad and currently I use wifi _only_ to download iOS updates. All the other (voip, netflix and spotify for example) is done over LTE/3G. Why? Because I can. I don't want to be scanned and located by APs or have unnecessary radars in my backpack. tldr; ever heard of terms privacy and need to _not_ use specific networks? kthxbye.
- zwily 9y ago
  You can turn on airplane mode to turn off all radios, then turn on the radios you want on if you really want to micromanage.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    You cannot enable airplane mode and then proceed to enable the cellular radio without first disabling airplane mode. At least you can't on an SE.
    - zwily 9y ago
      Ah, you're right. The other option is force-touching the Settings icon... but the SE doesn't have force-touch, I believe.
      - 24gttghh 9y ago
        Correct, no force-touch on the SE.

tammer 9y ago

Eh it sounds to me that this is a great quick fix for the "I'm slightly too far from the AP to have bandwidth but I'm still maintaining a connection" problem I have almost daily. Will make an obscure security concern you've identified slightly more difficult to deal with. If you don't prefer trade offs like this, Apple likely isn't the best digital provider for you.

darthbanane 9y ago
You’re right it’s an excellent solution to that issue and sometimes it’s exactly what I want. I’m worried about the security aspect because a stock iphone is what you should get if you care about privacy and security yet the UI actively misleads you on the purpose of the toggle. If they wanted a disconnect button they could have designed a new icon for it. Maybe a toast so that people understand what just happened. I found this out the hard way because my phone kept trying to connect to the subway APs and aside from giving them a nice transit map I lost about 30% battery.
- Terretta 9y ago
  The most common use case is toggling WiFi to drop a bad connection, and then forgetting to turn it back on, costing you who knows how much in LTE data when you’re back at home thinking you’re on WiFi. This UX change is like cash money to most users.
  - heartbreak 9y ago
    Although they did the exact same change for the Bluetooth toggle in the Control Center, and that one has less of a financial benefit. I don't mind the change, but I do wish that the force touch "pop" menu toggles would completely turn off those radios instead of simply disconnecting. For those who haven't used iOS 11, you can force touch the Control Center icons to pop in a full menu with additional toggles.
- conradev 9y ago
  Apple also randomizes your MAC address when probing to alleviate that privacy concern.

_kush 9y ago

The same is true for the Bluetooth toggle. It just turns it off for any new connections.

swiley 9y ago
That's pretty bad for a number of reasons.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Such as?
  - blub 9y ago
    Such as not wanting to get owned when the next bluetooth stack vulnerability inevitably pops up.

walterbell 9y ago

Yikes, this is a security issue. Does airplane mode still turn off wifi and bluetooth?

darthbanane 9y ago
It does. You can also see that the adapter is disabled (there is a stroke through the wifi icon then). It’s just the “I’ll quickly turn off wifi/bluetooth” that has gotten harder/misleading.
potatolicious 9y ago
Like others have brought up - it isn't a security issue. Since iOS 8 MAC addresses have been randomized until the phone connects to the AP. Your real MAC is not exposed to random listening APs nearby. It's been 3 years since your phone has been giving up its real identity while simply walking around. There may be good reason to want your WiFi radio off (battery?), but the cited privacy issue has been solved on iOS for several years already.
- et-al 9y ago
  Unfortunately multiple people here, and study posted today[0], have pointed out that MAC address randomization in iOS is still flawed. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15287100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15287100
  - ronnier 9y ago
    And remember the wifi hack? https://www.wired.com/story/broadpwn-wi-fi-vulnerability-ios-android/ https://www.wired.com/story/broadpwn-wi-fi-vulnerability-ios... For that reason, I keep my wifi off as much as possible.
- blub 9y ago
  Your reply seems a bit out of touch, considering the recently discovered and fixed vulnerabilities in the bt and Wi-Fi stacks of iPhones.

diffset 9y ago

The reason the WiFi and Bluetooth controls now work the way they do is to leave Apple's accessories (Watch, Pencil, etc.) connected and working while disconnecting you from other networks and devices.

blub 9y ago
It works the same way for people that don't have any accessories paired. To me it looks like a bug TBH.

mrblue182 9y ago

I remember reading that iOS 11 also come with MAC address randoming so that you can't be tracked by wifi.

dan1234 9y ago
Pretty sure MAC randomisation has been in since iOS8.
- grzm 9y ago
  It looks that way: > An information disclosure existed because a stable MAC address was being used to scan for WiFi networks. This issue was addressed by randomizing the MAC address for passive WiFi scans. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201395 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201395
artificial 9y ago
Looks like it's been broken across nearly everything. Here's where I read about it. Anyone know if this is addressed? https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-break-mac-address-randomization-and-track-100-percent-of-test-devices/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-b...

archagon 9y ago

Hmm, I figured this was an iOS 11 beta bug? It certainly didn't reconnect reliably after a minute, but would do so maybe once an hour.

mcgarnagle 9y ago

Misleading ui is terrible and making me consider other phone OS. I have wanted a toggle for location services in the control center for so long. Now they are going even further to remove useful functionality like toggling wifi and bluetooth. just horrible. Why is apple moving further away from intuitive ease of use?

_jal 9y ago

Oh, that's really annoying. I turn wifi off when I leave home. More and more things are pushing me to one of the fringe-phone platforms. Which is too bad - I otherwise really like the iPhone.

JustSomeNobody 9y ago
But, it's only one extra motion to force click settings, select wifi and toggle wifi off vs swipe up to control panel and click the wifi. I like the new wifi toggle because iPhones are AP sticky usually.
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  Except if you have the SE there is no force-touch and you are still forced into the main settings menu. I turn off the WiFi when driving or doing outdoors stuff because I don't want the battery to drain searching for a network for 6 hours...
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    I was not aware that wifi on the SE was that battery inefficient.
    - 24gttghh 9y ago
      Perhaps it is not, but I'm thinking about using this same phone and battery for at least couple more years (had it over a year now) so I like to conserve power where I can.
      - scottmf 9y ago
        Battery replacements are cheap
  - bradlys 9y ago
    I don't think you need force touch. From what I've seen people do, you can just long press and it'll be the same as force touching the item.

irrational 9y ago

Is there some sort of interface element that indicates when a setting can use force touch? Or does a user just have to do a long hold on everything to find out what does and doesn't accept force touch?

MBCook 9y ago
No, the discoverability problem still exists. You find out by trying it and hoping you remember the answer.