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I wonder if this will be seen as when people say "Just stop using drugs" to drug addicts. Facebook for those who use it can have immense real or imaginary utili
by ue_ 9y ago
I wonder if this will be seen as when people say "Just stop using drugs" to drug addicts. Facebook for those who use it can have immense real or imaginary utility; it's not as simple as telling someone not to use it, unless they are a very casual user and do not rely on it for things like organising group events.
- ameister14 9y agoStopping the use of Facebook and transitioning to another method of organizing group events does not cause physical illness or death.
- kfrzcode 9y agoYou're pigeonholing. Facebook is only part of the tapestry of social media poison.
- crispyambulance 9y agoYou're right but I still wonder what will ever become of the idea of a "true" online social network. Why do we have to hand over so much of ourselves in order to obtain social connection as a "side-effect" of the true business of social media operators like Facebook and Google? Are these companies the only way to have meaningful online social networks? I don't think it has to be that way, but I also can't fathom how a non-toxic social network can keep the lights on without selling stuff.
- kfrzcode 9y agoI see the big 4 as robber barons[1]. They see opportunity in millions and billions of dollars. The company doesn't care about the individual. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)
- crispyambulance 9y agoOf course they don't care about people. The social network that the members enjoy is merely a side-effect of the true business. Sort of like the fact that a cow pasture is not really about the cows' enjoyment but, when you get down to it, hamburgers. Amazingly most people are still as oblivious to this concept as cows are before becoming hamburgers. What I am wondering about is the possibility of a social network that is deliberately and intentionally about being JUST a social network and NOT some kind of complex mechanism for market research and exploitation.
- kfrzcode 9y agoI think the obstacle there is momentum and critical mass. Nobody uses askjeeves.com because Google has mindshare. If you were to build this hypothetical pure social media communication platform we'd still have to find it, it'd have to be funded, maintained, and improved. Even then it's useful only if you can get your network on it. Money is the root of all evil and will pervade into whatever is next. It's only human nature. You can see examples of this with https://diasporafoundation.org/ https://diasporafoundation.org/ and https://gab.ai/ https://gab.ai/ -> these platforms and ideas exist but they have a raindrop in a bucket of usershare. I'm not an expert in this field but I think about it a lot. Thanks for discussion, HN.
- crispyambulance 9y agoMaybe we're all thinking about this in a way that's too constrained? The theoretical dream of cyberspace, back in the 60-80's, before "the web" (as we know it) was that merely being "online" automatically put you in a global community: a place where distance no longer mattered, and where _all_ text is part of one giant hypertext. This was roughly the idea as described by Ted Nelson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson). I think there's a way for this theoretical concept to be realized without dependence on exploitative commerce-oriented websites, and perhaps, without dependence on websites period. Unfortunately, I have no idea what that will be like in reality.
- bridge_ro 9y ago
- pc86 9y agoHonestly, the sooner we can have a real discussion of the pros and cons of using Facebook and not using Facebook while everyone else around you continues, without ridiculous hyperbolic bullshit like "social media poison," the better.
- lazer_beam 9y agoNeither does stopping gambling.
- harveywi 9y agoGambling can be an addiction, but does not result in physical illness or death upon termination. Still, it can be highly addictive. Same goes for Facebook.
- waisbrot 9y agoYou're thinking of physical dependency. Addiction is compulsive behavior despite adverse consequences.
- dTal 9y agoNeither does the cessation of many addictive drugs, notably nicotine.
- Knufen 9y agoSome people are probably addicted to facebook, but for the vast majority I don't think your comparison is very good. In almost all cases you can switch to something different than facebook.
- striking 9y agoIf all your friends are on Facebook: no, you really can't.
- Knufen 9y agoYes you can, I have friends whom for various reason don't have a Facebook or stopped using it/deleted it. People will adjust and instead we contact them by mail or phone. Perhaps it's a bit of a annoyance, but you are not kept prisoner.
- amelius 9y agoI often get invited to events through Facebook. Without Facebook, I would miss out on a lot of events. For this reason I'm basically stuck with Facebook, but I've unfollowed most of my friends, so this reduces the burden to some extent.
- noncoml 9y agoAre we talking about friends or acquaintances? Because if ones friends forget to invite them to events because they are not on FB, then it’s time to find new friends.
- dTal 9y agoWhile I tend to agree, it's a little like telling someone to just "find a better job"; it's not always so easy. Maybe some people are unfortunate enough to not have real friends, and shallow Facebook connections are all they have. Even though the shallow connections take up time that could be spent forging more meaningful connections with those around them, not everyone is self-confident enough to go cold-turkey.
- moretai 9y agoNo it's pretty simple.