10 ms·

Toy stores are a _great_ example of opportunity for brick and mortar. Just like book stores, they operate in a space where curation, discovery and the physical

Toy stores are a _great_ example of opportunity for brick and mortar. Just like book stores, they operate in a space where curation, discovery and the physical experience adds real value. The town I grew up in has a great independent toy store, and I make it a point to shop there every time we're in town. Every time I find something unique that I would have never looked for on Amazon, and often I'm hooked by the tactile act of playing with something that couldn't be fully replicated online. As an interesting aside, this particular store[1] fought for its right to keep their mural (which was awesome but violated city codes) all the way to the supreme court[2]. They lost, but you've got to admire the chutzpa of someone willing to do that. [1] http://www.inlandoctopus.com/ http://www.inlandoctopus.com/ [2] http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/city-paints-over-walla-walla-octopus-sign/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/city-paints-over-wa...

rb808 9y ago
>Every time I find something unique that I would have never looked for on Amazon, and often I'm hooked by the tactile act of playing with something that couldn't be fully replicated online. You're absolutely right. The result usually is though that the kid finds a toy they like then puts in on their Birthday/Christmas wishlist from where the Santa buys from Amazon. I like to think I never do this, but if the price is much higher even I have a limit. I think that manufacturers should sell to physical toy stores at a lower price, and actively make sure online price is the same or higher than instore. but I dont how easy this is to police or even if is legal in some countries.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  > I like to think I never do this, but if the price is much higher even I have a limit. Really? You rationalize going to a brick and mortar international franchise simply because it is physical, instead of going to an online international franchise? Thats the biggest stretch of "buy local" that I've ever been exposed to.
  - Naritai 9y ago
    OP is talking about a small toy store, but regardless - an international franchise that has a location in your home town employs people from your home town, whereas Amazon (for the sake of argument in this case) does not. That's the core argument of 'buy local'.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Pretty sure the person who delivers my packages doesn't live in another country.
      - Naritai 9y ago
        A tiny fraction of the alternate, yes. Though of course much of the logistics planning an operations is easily outsourced.
  - nkrisc 9y ago
    Though it may be an international franchise, it still provides local jobs.
    - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
      Amazon provides salaried jobs at their regional warehouses, and revenue to the resellers, and revenue to affiliates. Perhaps the only thing missing is a way to sort results on Amazon by locale.
      - freehunter 9y ago
        Amazon may be local to my state but the small toy store is local to my _city_. The warehouse four hours away means less to me than someone who pays taxes in my city and lives two miles away.
        lostapathy 9y ago
- thefalcon 9y ago
  It's possible to enforce MAP pricing (minimum advertised price) online that matches in-store prices, but if you're a small player you'll lose out on the business of some of the larger buyers who are used to getting their way, and then you run the risk of getting yourself put out of business by trying to help out the little guys.
  - lostapathy 9y ago
    MAP is really hard to enforce, in practice. When your largest reseller is even 1-2% under MAP you you really can't do anything about it. Especially if they are over half your income - it's a game of chicken that isn't worth playing. MAP really only works when your resellers are fairly diverse and fairly even-sized. But if that were the case, we wouldn't have online behemoths undercutting everyone else in the first place.
- kbenson 9y ago
  > The result usually is though that the kid finds a toy they like then puts in on their Birthday/Christmas wishlist from where the Santa buys from Amazon. Well, it's also that when you walk in there looking for a present for the kids birthday party you are about to take your child to attend, you end up buying something there, and possibly even paying them to wrap it for you. I'm not sure I've ever ordered a present online for a friend of one of my kids. I have enough trouble remember the party is that day and getting there on time, much less ordering ahead of time.
  - linkregister 9y ago
    Absolutely. For any parent with no time and a bit of money, the toy store is far faster for a just-in-time present purchase. I have yet to find a worthwhile price difference for merchandise on Amazon.
- thanksforcoming 9y ago
  >I think that manufacturers should sell to physical toy stores at a lower price, and actively make sure online price is the same or higher than instore. but I dont how easy this is to police or even if is legal in some countries. These days, many brick & mortar stores are a market inefficiency. It's simply cheaper to store & ship out of centralized warehouses (as it goes when you order online) than to ship merchandise to individual stores, which themselves have limited floor space and storage space (resulting in less variety of products) as well as a smaller potential customer-base (only those who live nearby). I don't see why manufacturers should be punished by selling at a lower price in order to sustain outdated business practices. Stores that provide additional value, having unique goods that can't be found online or have cool atmosphere or such, will be fine.
  - xapata 9y ago
    What do you think of Amazon's retail outlets? They're little bookstores with a café and a display for a few electronics. They don't provide anything unique. In fact, they only sell what's popular on Amazon.
- juiyout 9y ago
  Former electronics manufacturer sales here. Manufacturers usually set the pricing steps with volume generally at the lowest price they can accept. The venue of goods sold often does not play a role in manufacturers' price structure. Now when it comes to channel cost, physical stores are already taking more margin out of retail price and for manufacturers, there is simply rarely large enough incentive to sell to physical toy stores at a lower price.
- abraae 9y ago
  Perhaps the end game is that customers will pay $10/family to enter the bricks and mortar store) - not unreasonable, if it has entertainment value/ a cool vibe. Then the $10 is rebated off anything they buy in-store.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    I'd love to see a toy store with a cover. But I feel like I might have to hurry.
- twiss 9y ago
  In many European countries, the prices of books are fixed [1]. Sometimes it's arranged by law, sometimes by publishers. Toy publishers could try to achieve the same. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    I think you'd struggle, with the sort of toys ToysRUs sell, to make an argument for cartel-style pricing based on cultural benefit. Arguably "big box" toy stores work against cultural value in toys.
SilasX 9y ago
>Toy stores are a _great_ example of opportunity for brick and mortar. Just like book stores, they operate in a space where curation, discovery and the physical experience adds real value. Not anymore. Customers just use them as a free showroom and then buy it cheaper off Amazon.
- GFischer 9y ago
  It cuts both ways, there's "webrooming" too: https://www.shopify.com/retail/why-retailers-should-embrace-webrooming https://www.shopify.com/retail/why-retailers-should-embrace-... It does cut into their margins, they can't be way more expensive than online.
- majormajor 9y ago
  If a toy store can't figure out how to take advantage "but MOMMMMMM I want it NOWWWWWWWWWW!" then little kids are far more mature than they were a few decades ago. :)
  - bluedino 9y ago
    You want that toy? Here, watch a YouTube video of someone else playing with it until Amazon delivers it tomorrow.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      Better yet try saying "no".
      - jedrek 9y ago
        The way adults say no to alcohol, cigarettes, sex, procrastination, and using their smartphones?
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        One would hope so!
m0llusk 9y ago
But Toys R Us was not a value adding retailer but rather just another big box warehouse store that did as well at lowering costs on big selections as possible before Internet shopping started to dominate big sales on big selections.
Pxtl 9y ago
I think the place brick and mortar seems to do well is where the store adds value over just selling merch. You go to Home Depot for expertise as much as for parts. You go to a local boardgame store for recommendations and events. You go to a toy store to get your hands on them and leverage staff expertise and curated inventory. The only big problem with this approach is showrooming. Toys r us or best buy carry bad products and are staffed by the lowest bidder. They offer no value over Amazon, so Amazon makes them worthless.
- tyingq 9y ago
  There's a lot here I agree with, but... >You go to Home Depot for expertise as much as for parts Has not been my experience. Ace hardware is a little better, but not much. I suppose sometimes they get lucky and a knowledgeable retiree is willing to work for those wages.
  - manyxcxi 9y ago
    I gave up on Ace like a decade ago... my local Fred Meyer (Kroger) has a better hardware section than my local Ace. I don't really have any loyalty to Home Depot vs. Lowe's vs. a local mom and pop, just have what I need when I need it.
  - lostapathy 9y ago
    Ace Hardware is a cooperative, not a chain, or even a franchise system. As such they vary a lot, and it seems on average they are getting worse. We used to have a really good Ace chain around here, with a proper hardware section and quality tools. They now only stock super common hardware, not the stuff I'd go to a specialty store for, and a lot of really garbage tools. And they certainly don't have any experts anymore. you're lucky if somebody's working who knows how to run the key machine (which also no longer requires any skill)
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      I don't understand why it being a cooperative makes for wide variance in staff quality. Do US Americans not like working in co-ops? What is it about profit sharing that causes the variation, in UK cooperatives seem to be more liberal and offer better working conditions but their recruitment seems pretty much inline with other forms of corporation. Can you offer any further insight? Perhaps the demise of this particular store (chain) is orthogonal to their cooperative status but you're assuming a causality?
minikomi 9y ago
Absolutely. My local bike shop[0] does this amazingly - holding rides, in-store events, very friendly and knowledgable mechanics, lots of in-house produced merch and encourages a culture of customizing and sharing bikes between customers. They do a lot of online work too, with an amazing series of instagram accounts. [0] http://bluelug.com/ http://bluelug.com/
- TheCondor 9y ago
  Bike shops play by different rules. The industry and vendors collaborate to block big stores. You cant get a Colnago or pinarelo or any top end bike at Walmart or web Walmart (amazon) you have to go to a bike shop and said shop is expected to perform certain services as you buy that bike. They fit it, they assemble it properly, usually tune it after a few rides, etc. the wholesale price has a price cooked in for assembly and those services. There are industry groups that aggressively police it. The small shops are, in essence, representatives for the vendors. There are also agreements that strongly control what's on the floor, a Specialized shop very rarely has Cervelo, BMC, or Trek bikes too, some might but generally the vendors don't allow it. It changes periodically, Giant, Specialized and Trek are big enough that they are doing their own stores and performance shops and not relying on small dealers as much. It's also different from many other things in that a misassembled bike can result in death. The industry as a whole supports bike shops though
  - linkregister 9y ago
    Why would Walmart stock high-end bikes, fully knowing that their floor staff don't have the expertise to answer any questions about the products? Who would go to Walmart to buy a high-end bike? Walmart shoppers look for commodity items, full stop. There is nothing wrong with that, by the way; toilet paper and cleaning supplies are used by everyone but are barely distinguishable.

rb808 9y ago

>Every time I find something unique that I would have never looked for on Amazon, and often I'm hooked by the tactile act of playing with something that couldn't be fully replicated online. You're absolutely right. The result usually is though that the kid finds a toy they like then puts in on their Birthday/Christmas wishlist from where the Santa buys from Amazon. I like to think I never do this, but if the price is much higher even I have a limit. I think that manufacturers should sell to physical toy stores at a lower price, and actively make sure online price is the same or higher than instore. but I dont how easy this is to police or even if is legal in some countries.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
> I like to think I never do this, but if the price is much higher even I have a limit. Really? You rationalize going to a brick and mortar international franchise simply because it is physical, instead of going to an online international franchise? Thats the biggest stretch of "buy local" that I've ever been exposed to.
- Naritai 9y ago
  OP is talking about a small toy store, but regardless - an international franchise that has a location in your home town employs people from your home town, whereas Amazon (for the sake of argument in this case) does not. That's the core argument of 'buy local'.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Pretty sure the person who delivers my packages doesn't live in another country.
    - Naritai 9y ago
      A tiny fraction of the alternate, yes. Though of course much of the logistics planning an operations is easily outsourced.
- nkrisc 9y ago
  Though it may be an international franchise, it still provides local jobs.
  - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
    Amazon provides salaried jobs at their regional warehouses, and revenue to the resellers, and revenue to affiliates. Perhaps the only thing missing is a way to sort results on Amazon by locale.
    - freehunter 9y ago
      Amazon may be local to my state but the small toy store is local to my _city_. The warehouse four hours away means less to me than someone who pays taxes in my city and lives two miles away.
      - lostapathy 9y ago
thefalcon 9y ago
It's possible to enforce MAP pricing (minimum advertised price) online that matches in-store prices, but if you're a small player you'll lose out on the business of some of the larger buyers who are used to getting their way, and then you run the risk of getting yourself put out of business by trying to help out the little guys.
- lostapathy 9y ago
  MAP is really hard to enforce, in practice. When your largest reseller is even 1-2% under MAP you you really can't do anything about it. Especially if they are over half your income - it's a game of chicken that isn't worth playing. MAP really only works when your resellers are fairly diverse and fairly even-sized. But if that were the case, we wouldn't have online behemoths undercutting everyone else in the first place.
kbenson 9y ago
> The result usually is though that the kid finds a toy they like then puts in on their Birthday/Christmas wishlist from where the Santa buys from Amazon. Well, it's also that when you walk in there looking for a present for the kids birthday party you are about to take your child to attend, you end up buying something there, and possibly even paying them to wrap it for you. I'm not sure I've ever ordered a present online for a friend of one of my kids. I have enough trouble remember the party is that day and getting there on time, much less ordering ahead of time.
- linkregister 9y ago
  Absolutely. For any parent with no time and a bit of money, the toy store is far faster for a just-in-time present purchase. I have yet to find a worthwhile price difference for merchandise on Amazon.
thanksforcoming 9y ago
>I think that manufacturers should sell to physical toy stores at a lower price, and actively make sure online price is the same or higher than instore. but I dont how easy this is to police or even if is legal in some countries. These days, many brick & mortar stores are a market inefficiency. It's simply cheaper to store & ship out of centralized warehouses (as it goes when you order online) than to ship merchandise to individual stores, which themselves have limited floor space and storage space (resulting in less variety of products) as well as a smaller potential customer-base (only those who live nearby). I don't see why manufacturers should be punished by selling at a lower price in order to sustain outdated business practices. Stores that provide additional value, having unique goods that can't be found online or have cool atmosphere or such, will be fine.
- xapata 9y ago
  What do you think of Amazon's retail outlets? They're little bookstores with a café and a display for a few electronics. They don't provide anything unique. In fact, they only sell what's popular on Amazon.
juiyout 9y ago
Former electronics manufacturer sales here. Manufacturers usually set the pricing steps with volume generally at the lowest price they can accept. The venue of goods sold often does not play a role in manufacturers' price structure. Now when it comes to channel cost, physical stores are already taking more margin out of retail price and for manufacturers, there is simply rarely large enough incentive to sell to physical toy stores at a lower price.
abraae 9y ago
Perhaps the end game is that customers will pay $10/family to enter the bricks and mortar store) - not unreasonable, if it has entertainment value/ a cool vibe. Then the $10 is rebated off anything they buy in-store.
- throwanem 9y ago
  I'd love to see a toy store with a cover. But I feel like I might have to hurry.
twiss 9y ago
In many European countries, the prices of books are fixed [1]. Sometimes it's arranged by law, sometimes by publishers. Toy publishers could try to achieve the same. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  I think you'd struggle, with the sort of toys ToysRUs sell, to make an argument for cartel-style pricing based on cultural benefit. Arguably "big box" toy stores work against cultural value in toys.

SilasX 9y ago

>Toy stores are a _great_ example of opportunity for brick and mortar. Just like book stores, they operate in a space where curation, discovery and the physical experience adds real value. Not anymore. Customers just use them as a free showroom and then buy it cheaper off Amazon.

GFischer 9y ago
It cuts both ways, there's "webrooming" too: https://www.shopify.com/retail/why-retailers-should-embrace-webrooming https://www.shopify.com/retail/why-retailers-should-embrace-... It does cut into their margins, they can't be way more expensive than online.
majormajor 9y ago
If a toy store can't figure out how to take advantage "but MOMMMMMM I want it NOWWWWWWWWWW!" then little kids are far more mature than they were a few decades ago. :)
- bluedino 9y ago
  You want that toy? Here, watch a YouTube video of someone else playing with it until Amazon delivers it tomorrow.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    Better yet try saying "no".
    - jedrek 9y ago
      The way adults say no to alcohol, cigarettes, sex, procrastination, and using their smartphones?
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        One would hope so!

m0llusk 9y ago

But Toys R Us was not a value adding retailer but rather just another big box warehouse store that did as well at lowering costs on big selections as possible before Internet shopping started to dominate big sales on big selections.

Pxtl 9y ago

I think the place brick and mortar seems to do well is where the store adds value over just selling merch. You go to Home Depot for expertise as much as for parts. You go to a local boardgame store for recommendations and events. You go to a toy store to get your hands on them and leverage staff expertise and curated inventory. The only big problem with this approach is showrooming. Toys r us or best buy carry bad products and are staffed by the lowest bidder. They offer no value over Amazon, so Amazon makes them worthless.

tyingq 9y ago
There's a lot here I agree with, but... >You go to Home Depot for expertise as much as for parts Has not been my experience. Ace hardware is a little better, but not much. I suppose sometimes they get lucky and a knowledgeable retiree is willing to work for those wages.
- manyxcxi 9y ago
  I gave up on Ace like a decade ago... my local Fred Meyer (Kroger) has a better hardware section than my local Ace. I don't really have any loyalty to Home Depot vs. Lowe's vs. a local mom and pop, just have what I need when I need it.
- lostapathy 9y ago
  Ace Hardware is a cooperative, not a chain, or even a franchise system. As such they vary a lot, and it seems on average they are getting worse. We used to have a really good Ace chain around here, with a proper hardware section and quality tools. They now only stock super common hardware, not the stuff I'd go to a specialty store for, and a lot of really garbage tools. And they certainly don't have any experts anymore. you're lucky if somebody's working who knows how to run the key machine (which also no longer requires any skill)
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    I don't understand why it being a cooperative makes for wide variance in staff quality. Do US Americans not like working in co-ops? What is it about profit sharing that causes the variation, in UK cooperatives seem to be more liberal and offer better working conditions but their recruitment seems pretty much inline with other forms of corporation. Can you offer any further insight? Perhaps the demise of this particular store (chain) is orthogonal to their cooperative status but you're assuming a causality?

minikomi 9y ago

Absolutely. My local bike shop[0] does this amazingly - holding rides, in-store events, very friendly and knowledgable mechanics, lots of in-house produced merch and encourages a culture of customizing and sharing bikes between customers. They do a lot of online work too, with an amazing series of instagram accounts. [0] http://bluelug.com/ http://bluelug.com/

TheCondor 9y ago
Bike shops play by different rules. The industry and vendors collaborate to block big stores. You cant get a Colnago or pinarelo or any top end bike at Walmart or web Walmart (amazon) you have to go to a bike shop and said shop is expected to perform certain services as you buy that bike. They fit it, they assemble it properly, usually tune it after a few rides, etc. the wholesale price has a price cooked in for assembly and those services. There are industry groups that aggressively police it. The small shops are, in essence, representatives for the vendors. There are also agreements that strongly control what's on the floor, a Specialized shop very rarely has Cervelo, BMC, or Trek bikes too, some might but generally the vendors don't allow it. It changes periodically, Giant, Specialized and Trek are big enough that they are doing their own stores and performance shops and not relying on small dealers as much. It's also different from many other things in that a misassembled bike can result in death. The industry as a whole supports bike shops though
- linkregister 9y ago
  Why would Walmart stock high-end bikes, fully knowing that their floor staff don't have the expertise to answer any questions about the products? Who would go to Walmart to buy a high-end bike? Walmart shoppers look for commodity items, full stop. There is nothing wrong with that, by the way; toilet paper and cleaning supplies are used by everyone but are barely distinguishable.