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To end Framework Churn once and for all, we need a way to create components that speak a language every developer and framework can understand. A component lang

To end Framework Churn once and for all, we need a way to create components that speak a language every developer and framework can understand. A component language that can be standardized but is also compatible with existing framework component languages. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

majewsky 9y ago
I'm downvoting this because this is a knockout argument: People use this comic way too often to shush those of us who want to have a debate about whether a standard would be useful in a particular situation. I don't think this was Randall's intention when he did this comic.
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  fair enough; thanks for explaining your decision, too. I think it's a potent danger to be aware of, but I agree that I don't think it's a binding prophecy that somehow must happen.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >People use this comic way too often to shush those of us who want to have a debate about whether a standard would be useful in a particular situation And more often than not, they are right. In this particular case Web Components only solves part of what frameworks do, and solves it badly. As badly as CSS solved the layout problem the last 2 decades. I wouldn't mind a nice Web Components solution, but the current design reminds me of the over-engineering of things like Swing and JSF.
  - marcosdumay 9y ago
    > And more often than not, they are right. And yet, every time that the number of standards is reduced, it is by this same process. So, yes, it is the one way to do it. And yes, more often than more, it fails completely. So, let me ask you, what is the point of complaining that somebody is going through that?
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >And yet, every time that the number of standards is reduced, it is by this same process Is it? I'd say it's usually rather because: (a) Some of the competing standards wither and we get rid of them. (b) Some standard emerges as the winning one and is adopted by everybody. But very rarely by the addition of a new standard.
      - marcosdumay 9y ago
        So, some standard emerging does not require creating standards? And for competing standards to wither, there somebody must have created the other standards too.
        coldtea 9y ago
        >So, some standard emerging does not require creating standards? I wrote "emerges as winner". Not "emerges period". Which does not require creating a NEW standard on top of existing ones (N+1), since an already existing standard (of N) can emerge as the winner.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Actually I rather pick a Swing or JSF project over any modern HTML 5 one, if given the option. Now the latest Web framework trend is to do start headless browsers to do server side rendering.
knieveltech 9y ago
I'm upvoting this, primarily because it accurately reflects what usually happens when a new standard is proposed. Apparently the rest of the HN community is either unaware of this, or dislike being reminded of it.

majewsky 9y ago

I'm downvoting this because this is a knockout argument: People use this comic way too often to shush those of us who want to have a debate about whether a standard would be useful in a particular situation. I don't think this was Randall's intention when he did this comic.

hprotagonist 9y ago
fair enough; thanks for explaining your decision, too. I think it's a potent danger to be aware of, but I agree that I don't think it's a binding prophecy that somehow must happen.
coldtea 9y ago
>People use this comic way too often to shush those of us who want to have a debate about whether a standard would be useful in a particular situation And more often than not, they are right. In this particular case Web Components only solves part of what frameworks do, and solves it badly. As badly as CSS solved the layout problem the last 2 decades. I wouldn't mind a nice Web Components solution, but the current design reminds me of the over-engineering of things like Swing and JSF.
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  > And more often than not, they are right. And yet, every time that the number of standards is reduced, it is by this same process. So, yes, it is the one way to do it. And yes, more often than more, it fails completely. So, let me ask you, what is the point of complaining that somebody is going through that?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >And yet, every time that the number of standards is reduced, it is by this same process Is it? I'd say it's usually rather because: (a) Some of the competing standards wither and we get rid of them. (b) Some standard emerges as the winning one and is adopted by everybody. But very rarely by the addition of a new standard.
    - marcosdumay 9y ago
      So, some standard emerging does not require creating standards? And for competing standards to wither, there somebody must have created the other standards too.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        >So, some standard emerging does not require creating standards? I wrote "emerges as winner". Not "emerges period". Which does not require creating a NEW standard on top of existing ones (N+1), since an already existing standard (of N) can emerge as the winner.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Actually I rather pick a Swing or JSF project over any modern HTML 5 one, if given the option. Now the latest Web framework trend is to do start headless browsers to do server side rendering.

knieveltech 9y ago

I'm upvoting this, primarily because it accurately reflects what usually happens when a new standard is proposed. Apparently the rest of the HN community is either unaware of this, or dislike being reminded of it.