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What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up t

What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up the organization or find a higher spot inn another. I want to know more about all facets of the firm and one day be a principal in a prop trading firm. I don't put in 80+ hour weeks because I want to stay where I'm at in my career. I become involved in more and take on more reliability because I want more responsibility I the future. I work twice or more what I'm paid to work because I want to earn at least twice as much in the future. Worrying about how many hours you are putting in against your current paycheck isn't very forward looking for your career.

slaunchwise 9y ago
Pro tip for getting ahead: learn the difference between 'commiserate' and 'commensurate'. Otherwise you will be unintentionally funny.
- wiredfool 9y ago
  Perhaps it's the sleep deprivation showing.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  Thanks. On phone. Swype "comm" and just accept what it gives you.
- ssalazar 9y ago
  "Thanks to you, sales are up 20% and infrastructure costs are down 15%. But you made a minor spelling error in a Hacker News post, so we're gonna have to pass on that promotion this year."
huebnerob 9y ago
We're all quite familiar with the idea that working long hours gets you brownie points with your managers. The point that's being made here is that companies should not be so proud of this quid pro quo, because on paper it is quite literally a devaluation of your time. You feeling you need to work excessive hours to progress in your career does not make anything about it right, quite the opposite actually.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  Your excessive is my right amount. There are things that need to be done and just hiring nor people doesn't work. Peopleb aren't commodities - some things only I can do at a certain level much because I might have put myself into that place by learning all the prices of the puzzle. I don't like the judgmental attitude against those of us who decide to make different judgement calls in life.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    "Your excessive is my right amount. There are things that need to be done and just hiring nor people doesn't work." That's a complete lie. "I don't like the judgmental attitude against those of us who decide to make different judgement calls in life." Because it's not just your judgement call. By you doing that, now the expectation is on everyone else. Especially because you set the bar by working for less pay, dragging everyone else down.
    - jnordwick 9y ago
      Lol. I definitely pull the pay scale up but I also do increase expectations. And you think that is a bad thing?
      - s73ver_ 9y ago
        But you're not pulling the pay scale up. You're lowering the hourly rate, and setting the expectation that others not have a life outside of work. That is a bad thing.
richardknop 9y ago
You can progress in your career very rapidly by doing 40h of high quality work per week. I know many young people (my generation) who are in their late 20s or early 30s and have made a very fast career progression already and didn't need to work 80 hours per day at all. Also for software engineers you have to take into account continuously upskilling yourself to know the latest tech is something which takes a lot of time and is mostly done outside of work as there's never time at work for that. So most great software engineers I know might work 40h for the company per week but in order to keep on top of their game they spend portion of their free time for that. Just as you said "I want to know more about all facets of the firm", most good engineers want to have a deeper understanding of specific tech and finer details.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  Like a lot of people in financial technology and HFT, I dont work outside projevrs very much. I get a lot of my experience with newer tech inside my job and as well have to deal with some fairlt heavy secrecy issues. But aren't you just trading the location of work for the most part? I get that experience from within my firm on projects I'm working on while others still work on their skills just outside their employment? It is still "work" in a sense. I realize many don't get the same intellectual benefit from employment that i enjoy but trashing people who do and take advantage of it doesn't seem appropriate. I've also learned that just knowing how to code better doesn't help you deliver a better product always. For example in my case, even though I mostly work front office I need to know how the back office works as well as how our fiber and colo facilities run. I've done everything from trade strategies to program them to installing rack system to work on fiber negotiations to deal with trade breaks to etc... It has helped me tremendously add value to the firms I work in. There is a lot to be said about knowing your business as well as knowing how to code.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    >> But aren't you just trading the location of work for the most part? I get that experience from within my firm on projects I'm working on while others still work on their skills just outside their employment? It is still "work" in a sense. Not really because it doesn't feel like work. You don't have to code in your free time, you can go out with family / gf / friends and do some fun social activity, you can do sports to maintain healthy and fit body, you can travel, read a good book etc... so you get the choice how to spend your free time. For example with sports, if you are working 80 hours per week it is not possible to do any sport seriously. You need at least 5-6 hours per week if you want to really get good at any sport. It is also incredibly unhealthy to work 16 hours per day. You are literally destroying your body. And if you decide to write code or do something technical in your free time you are in charge of defining the project you will work on, interesting in AI/machine learning, big data, distributed systems, specific algorithms or problems? You can work on the exact problem that intrigues you. Can't do that for a company as your work is not decided by you. >> I realize many don't get the same intellectual benefit from employment that i enjoy but trashing people who do and take advantage of it doesn't seem appropriate. I am not trashing anybody. Just saying that you don't need to work 80 hours per week to get promoted and progress in your career. Quality and productivity matters, not hours you spend sitting in the office.
le-mark 9y ago
> I become involved in more and take on more reliability because I want more responsibility I the future. I work twice or more what I'm paid to work because I want to earn at least twice as much in the future. Noble sentiment, but in reality you are just marking yourself as a fool, especially to everyone above you. You seem to think that over achieving now will translate to future gains in either salary or position, it won't. You'll simply be exploited and marginalized by those who play the political game better than you. If you're goal is to move into management, then you have to play the politics where day to day competency is just a formality. Actually you don't even have to be competent, you just have to have perceived competency.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  I'm far from a low level grunt in my orgs. So far working hard has proven to be key in moving up. While in my field there isn't such a clear line between management and non management my last two titles have have had a foot in the management side. In seems to be en vogue to despise hard work today (unless it is manual labor).
  - le-mark 9y ago
    There are certainly fields and/or companies where ones pay and position can be commensurate with their effort. Most would agree that these are the exception not the rule, congratulations if you happen to be in that position.
    - jnordwick 9y ago
      I really do think that is true of most field though. And carry that attitude around is the easiest way to make it true.
Aeolun 9y ago
But this is an unhealthy sentiment. You should be able to move up and get where you want to be even if you work a normal 40 hour workweek.

slaunchwise 9y ago

Pro tip for getting ahead: learn the difference between 'commiserate' and 'commensurate'. Otherwise you will be unintentionally funny.

wiredfool 9y ago
Perhaps it's the sleep deprivation showing.
jnordwick 9y ago
Thanks. On phone. Swype "comm" and just accept what it gives you.
ssalazar 9y ago
"Thanks to you, sales are up 20% and infrastructure costs are down 15%. But you made a minor spelling error in a Hacker News post, so we're gonna have to pass on that promotion this year."

huebnerob 9y ago

We're all quite familiar with the idea that working long hours gets you brownie points with your managers. The point that's being made here is that companies should not be so proud of this quid pro quo, because on paper it is quite literally a devaluation of your time. You feeling you need to work excessive hours to progress in your career does not make anything about it right, quite the opposite actually.

jnordwick 9y ago
Your excessive is my right amount. There are things that need to be done and just hiring nor people doesn't work. Peopleb aren't commodities - some things only I can do at a certain level much because I might have put myself into that place by learning all the prices of the puzzle. I don't like the judgmental attitude against those of us who decide to make different judgement calls in life.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  "Your excessive is my right amount. There are things that need to be done and just hiring nor people doesn't work." That's a complete lie. "I don't like the judgmental attitude against those of us who decide to make different judgement calls in life." Because it's not just your judgement call. By you doing that, now the expectation is on everyone else. Especially because you set the bar by working for less pay, dragging everyone else down.
  - jnordwick 9y ago
    Lol. I definitely pull the pay scale up but I also do increase expectations. And you think that is a bad thing?
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      But you're not pulling the pay scale up. You're lowering the hourly rate, and setting the expectation that others not have a life outside of work. That is a bad thing.

richardknop 9y ago

You can progress in your career very rapidly by doing 40h of high quality work per week. I know many young people (my generation) who are in their late 20s or early 30s and have made a very fast career progression already and didn't need to work 80 hours per day at all. Also for software engineers you have to take into account continuously upskilling yourself to know the latest tech is something which takes a lot of time and is mostly done outside of work as there's never time at work for that. So most great software engineers I know might work 40h for the company per week but in order to keep on top of their game they spend portion of their free time for that. Just as you said "I want to know more about all facets of the firm", most good engineers want to have a deeper understanding of specific tech and finer details.

jnordwick 9y ago
Like a lot of people in financial technology and HFT, I dont work outside projevrs very much. I get a lot of my experience with newer tech inside my job and as well have to deal with some fairlt heavy secrecy issues. But aren't you just trading the location of work for the most part? I get that experience from within my firm on projects I'm working on while others still work on their skills just outside their employment? It is still "work" in a sense. I realize many don't get the same intellectual benefit from employment that i enjoy but trashing people who do and take advantage of it doesn't seem appropriate. I've also learned that just knowing how to code better doesn't help you deliver a better product always. For example in my case, even though I mostly work front office I need to know how the back office works as well as how our fiber and colo facilities run. I've done everything from trade strategies to program them to installing rack system to work on fiber negotiations to deal with trade breaks to etc... It has helped me tremendously add value to the firms I work in. There is a lot to be said about knowing your business as well as knowing how to code.
- richardknop 9y ago
  >> But aren't you just trading the location of work for the most part? I get that experience from within my firm on projects I'm working on while others still work on their skills just outside their employment? It is still "work" in a sense. Not really because it doesn't feel like work. You don't have to code in your free time, you can go out with family / gf / friends and do some fun social activity, you can do sports to maintain healthy and fit body, you can travel, read a good book etc... so you get the choice how to spend your free time. For example with sports, if you are working 80 hours per week it is not possible to do any sport seriously. You need at least 5-6 hours per week if you want to really get good at any sport. It is also incredibly unhealthy to work 16 hours per day. You are literally destroying your body. And if you decide to write code or do something technical in your free time you are in charge of defining the project you will work on, interesting in AI/machine learning, big data, distributed systems, specific algorithms or problems? You can work on the exact problem that intrigues you. Can't do that for a company as your work is not decided by you. >> I realize many don't get the same intellectual benefit from employment that i enjoy but trashing people who do and take advantage of it doesn't seem appropriate. I am not trashing anybody. Just saying that you don't need to work 80 hours per week to get promoted and progress in your career. Quality and productivity matters, not hours you spend sitting in the office.

le-mark 9y ago

> I become involved in more and take on more reliability because I want more responsibility I the future. I work twice or more what I'm paid to work because I want to earn at least twice as much in the future. Noble sentiment, but in reality you are just marking yourself as a fool, especially to everyone above you. You seem to think that over achieving now will translate to future gains in either salary or position, it won't. You'll simply be exploited and marginalized by those who play the political game better than you. If you're goal is to move into management, then you have to play the politics where day to day competency is just a formality. Actually you don't even have to be competent, you just have to have perceived competency.

jnordwick 9y ago
I'm far from a low level grunt in my orgs. So far working hard has proven to be key in moving up. While in my field there isn't such a clear line between management and non management my last two titles have have had a foot in the management side. In seems to be en vogue to despise hard work today (unless it is manual labor).
- le-mark 9y ago
  There are certainly fields and/or companies where ones pay and position can be commensurate with their effort. Most would agree that these are the exception not the rule, congratulations if you happen to be in that position.
  - jnordwick 9y ago
    I really do think that is true of most field though. And carry that attitude around is the easiest way to make it true.

Aeolun 9y ago

But this is an unhealthy sentiment. You should be able to move up and get where you want to be even if you work a normal 40 hour workweek.