5 ms·

This is insane. I've actually been looking to reduce my work hours to about 30, because even 40 seems too much. Having had a couple of burnouts before, I want m

by etiene 9y ago

This is insane. I've actually been looking to reduce my work hours to about 30, because even 40 seems too much. Having had a couple of burnouts before, I want my life to be more than my job, and I truly believe this would make me better at my job in the long term. After a day of full time work I almost never have the energy to do some of the other things I want to do. I want to be able do more open source, learn a foreign language or a musical instrument, spend time with my partner, study some new cool technology, do some exercise etc. I was very disappointed to see a big name in the industry to promote exploitation like that.

Joe-Z 9y ago
Go for it! I'm working a 30-hour week right now. Like you, I feel even 40 hours/week of pure coding ist just not sustainable. Out of the 3 software dev jobs I had up to this point all the people that 'worked' over-time were just wasting more time drinking coffee and chit-chatting with colleagues. Most of the time I just want to put in a productive day, solve 1 or 2 problems and then go home at a reasonable time, so I can actually enjoy my life, not just sit in a damn office all the time. Also, having worked a 30-hour week for a few years now, I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Putting in 4-5 hours of really productive coding work a day and then spend the rest of the time on something else, like managerial work is something I can see myself actually doing. But expecting people to produce high-quality coding work for 8 hours a day is just wishful thinking.
- stefantheard 9y ago
  How were you able to swing a 30-hour a week job? Was it negotiated or are you consulting / setting your own hours?
  - Joe-Z 9y ago
    It actually started as a side-job while studying. I actually increased to 30 hours/week over time from starting with 20 hours/week. That said, I think most companies would be willing to find some agreement on reduced working hours if you've proven valuable too them. A friend of mine just recently switched to 32 hours/week over 4 days, after having started out at the company with a 40 hours job. It's really the best option for the company and yourself if one of the two parties isn't satisfied with the agreement anymore.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  > I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Why would they do that? You don't seem to have shown any initiative or demonstrated how well you would take on extra responsibility.
  - Joe-Z 9y ago
    I'm sorry, but do you know anything about my work as a coder besides that I work 30 hours a week? I bet you, if you were to ask my boss if I've proven a valuable asset to the company he would sing you a song of praise for my work. Working long hours isn't everything.
    - notyourday 9y ago
      > I bet you, if you were to ask my boss if I've proven a valuable asset to the company he would sing you a song of praise for my work. Because you work for him and he does not work for you. People rise to one level above their competency. You are a worker-bee. He is a queen. Him singing praises for your work is irrelevant. The only metric that is relevant in this discussion is who is the boss.
      - taysic 9y ago
        What does your comment have to do with OP's boss being willing to give him responsibilities beyond just being a coder - despite being rude?
        notyourday 9y ago
        OP's position is: "I'm valuable, just ask my boss. He sings praises for me" It is a very naive position that needs to be eradicated If it is not, then "take 50% off your salary and be happy about it" would be a norm. In our society money and power are proxy for the value. People get promoted to one level above their competency because at the top level of their performance they do well which means that they are promoted one layer higher. That's the last promotion they get.
danielharrison 9y ago
I dropped my standard hours down to 24 just recently and it's been rejuvenating. I do pick up the odd freelance/contract job whem it suits (pay/hours) and spend the rest of my time working around the house and generally relaxing. It's done wonders for mental health and stress levels. No more sitting in traffic all day, missing half my kids' life, stressing out about not getting stuff done around the house, eatimg crap food on the fly, being too tired to do much in the weekend, and most of all I can spend more time with my wife, which is awesome.
- EGreg 9y ago
  Yes! This is why I think FTE (Full Time Employment) should be disrupted. But it has to make sense on a societal level. Basic Income is one factor: https://qbix.com/blog/ https://qbix.com/blog/ Here is another, which I highly recommend to entrepreneurs: https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-contributions/ https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-con...
mcv 9y ago
I'm working 32 hours: 4 days a week. That leaves me a day with the kids outside the weekend. Oldest kid is at school most of the day, so I take the youngest to the zoo or something. I heartily recommend it. It's crazy that we're all still working 40 hours a week. Didn't Keynes promise we'd have 15 hour work weeks by now? (He did. He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, though.)
- soVeryTired 9y ago
  >He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, though. He also didn't anticipate zero-sum competition for inflexible goods like housing. If I want a nice house in a decent city, I have to out-compete and out-borrow everyone else who might want that house. If everyone around me is making bank and I want the nice house, then I'd better make bank too. Lots of us end up working more than we'd like, in a delicate balance between our desire for stuff and our tolerance of overwork. Life would be a whole lot easier if we could control our desires but it's easier said than done.
  - chii 9y ago
    > zero-sum competition for inflexible goods if you consider good housing to be only within a certain distance of some CBD, then yes, housing is zero sum. But there's lots more space available than humans right now, and relaxing the distance/centrality requirement will greatly increase the pool of available housing (and hence, "cheaper"). The only winner when everyone tries to outbid for a small amount of housing is the original owners.
    - richardknop 9y ago
      All the best jobs are in the big expensive cities. Everywhere around the world, if you want the best job you will need to go to New York, SF, London, Tokyo, Paris, Munich etc. That's one reason why everybody wants to live there. Second reason would is to be close to a large number of people which greatly increases social activities you can do. In a large city even a niche hobby will probably attract enough people that you can find a group of buddies who like same things.
arien 9y ago
I did cut my salary by 40% voluntarily. I now work part-time (3 days per week, plus the rare emergency). Much better, as I can still pay the bills and got a 4 day weekend to do whatever I please with. I'm also a lot more productive as well both in and outside of work. The only downside is that I don't have as much spare money as I used to to spend on those free days (e.g. travelling or taking lessons on x/y/z), but there are other low cost hobbies I take instead (my own coding projects amongst them). Socialising has gone up as well. Working 70+ hours can be fun at some point in life, I've done it before. But it's too easy to get stuck in there and burnout or worse.
gyrgtyn 9y ago
Between jobs once, someone gave me a pity job. It was hourly, 4 hours a day. I did job search stuff the other hours of the day. I was completely crushing it with those 4 hours. It's probably a really good arrangement for an employer if they somehow convince people to do they dicking around on hackernews off the clock. 4 hours of pure output.
movedx 9y ago
Try starting earlier and finishing earlier. Maybe see if you can do 7-3?

by etiene 9y ago

Joe-Z 9y ago

Go for it! I'm working a 30-hour week right now. Like you, I feel even 40 hours/week of pure coding ist just not sustainable. Out of the 3 software dev jobs I had up to this point all the people that 'worked' over-time were just wasting more time drinking coffee and chit-chatting with colleagues. Most of the time I just want to put in a productive day, solve 1 or 2 problems and then go home at a reasonable time, so I can actually enjoy my life, not just sit in a damn office all the time. Also, having worked a 30-hour week for a few years now, I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Putting in 4-5 hours of really productive coding work a day and then spend the rest of the time on something else, like managerial work is something I can see myself actually doing. But expecting people to produce high-quality coding work for 8 hours a day is just wishful thinking.

stefantheard 9y ago
How were you able to swing a 30-hour a week job? Was it negotiated or are you consulting / setting your own hours?
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  It actually started as a side-job while studying. I actually increased to 30 hours/week over time from starting with 20 hours/week. That said, I think most companies would be willing to find some agreement on reduced working hours if you've proven valuable too them. A friend of mine just recently switched to 32 hours/week over 4 days, after having started out at the company with a 40 hours job. It's really the best option for the company and yourself if one of the two parties isn't satisfied with the agreement anymore.
jnordwick 9y ago
> I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Why would they do that? You don't seem to have shown any initiative or demonstrated how well you would take on extra responsibility.
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  I'm sorry, but do you know anything about my work as a coder besides that I work 30 hours a week? I bet you, if you were to ask my boss if I've proven a valuable asset to the company he would sing you a song of praise for my work. Working long hours isn't everything.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    > I bet you, if you were to ask my boss if I've proven a valuable asset to the company he would sing you a song of praise for my work. Because you work for him and he does not work for you. People rise to one level above their competency. You are a worker-bee. He is a queen. Him singing praises for your work is irrelevant. The only metric that is relevant in this discussion is who is the boss.
    - taysic 9y ago
      What does your comment have to do with OP's boss being willing to give him responsibilities beyond just being a coder - despite being rude?
      - notyourday 9y ago
        OP's position is: "I'm valuable, just ask my boss. He sings praises for me" It is a very naive position that needs to be eradicated If it is not, then "take 50% off your salary and be happy about it" would be a norm. In our society money and power are proxy for the value. People get promoted to one level above their competency because at the top level of their performance they do well which means that they are promoted one layer higher. That's the last promotion they get.

danielharrison 9y ago

I dropped my standard hours down to 24 just recently and it's been rejuvenating. I do pick up the odd freelance/contract job whem it suits (pay/hours) and spend the rest of my time working around the house and generally relaxing. It's done wonders for mental health and stress levels. No more sitting in traffic all day, missing half my kids' life, stressing out about not getting stuff done around the house, eatimg crap food on the fly, being too tired to do much in the weekend, and most of all I can spend more time with my wife, which is awesome.

EGreg 9y ago
Yes! This is why I think FTE (Full Time Employment) should be disrupted. But it has to make sense on a societal level. Basic Income is one factor: https://qbix.com/blog/ https://qbix.com/blog/ Here is another, which I highly recommend to entrepreneurs: https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-contributions/ https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-con...

mcv 9y ago

I'm working 32 hours: 4 days a week. That leaves me a day with the kids outside the weekend. Oldest kid is at school most of the day, so I take the youngest to the zoo or something. I heartily recommend it. It's crazy that we're all still working 40 hours a week. Didn't Keynes promise we'd have 15 hour work weeks by now? (He did. He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, though.)

soVeryTired 9y ago
>He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, though. He also didn't anticipate zero-sum competition for inflexible goods like housing. If I want a nice house in a decent city, I have to out-compete and out-borrow everyone else who might want that house. If everyone around me is making bank and I want the nice house, then I'd better make bank too. Lots of us end up working more than we'd like, in a delicate balance between our desire for stuff and our tolerance of overwork. Life would be a whole lot easier if we could control our desires but it's easier said than done.
- chii 9y ago
  > zero-sum competition for inflexible goods if you consider good housing to be only within a certain distance of some CBD, then yes, housing is zero sum. But there's lots more space available than humans right now, and relaxing the distance/centrality requirement will greatly increase the pool of available housing (and hence, "cheaper"). The only winner when everyone tries to outbid for a small amount of housing is the original owners.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    All the best jobs are in the big expensive cities. Everywhere around the world, if you want the best job you will need to go to New York, SF, London, Tokyo, Paris, Munich etc. That's one reason why everybody wants to live there. Second reason would is to be close to a large number of people which greatly increases social activities you can do. In a large city even a niche hobby will probably attract enough people that you can find a group of buddies who like same things.

arien 9y ago

I did cut my salary by 40% voluntarily. I now work part-time (3 days per week, plus the rare emergency). Much better, as I can still pay the bills and got a 4 day weekend to do whatever I please with. I'm also a lot more productive as well both in and outside of work. The only downside is that I don't have as much spare money as I used to to spend on those free days (e.g. travelling or taking lessons on x/y/z), but there are other low cost hobbies I take instead (my own coding projects amongst them). Socialising has gone up as well. Working 70+ hours can be fun at some point in life, I've done it before. But it's too easy to get stuck in there and burnout or worse.

gyrgtyn 9y ago

Between jobs once, someone gave me a pity job. It was hourly, 4 hours a day. I did job search stuff the other hours of the day. I was completely crushing it with those 4 hours. It's probably a really good arrangement for an employer if they somehow convince people to do they dicking around on hackernews off the clock. 4 hours of pure output.

movedx 9y ago

Try starting earlier and finishing earlier. Maybe see if you can do 7-3?