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I hear the "Safari is the new IE" catchphrase a lot these days. But serious answers only please, does anyone know WHY Apple has let its browser go stagnant? I

I hear the "Safari is the new IE" catchphrase a lot these days. But serious answers only please, does anyone know WHY Apple has let its browser go stagnant? Is this a deliberate strategic decision (i.e. to drive Apple users toward native apps?). Or pure Hanlon's razor?

lallysingh 9y ago
It's "good enough" that it doesn't hinder the sale of Macs. The engineers can be used on different tasks. Mozilla is generally a safe option.
twsted 9y ago
Safari is not stagnant by any means. See https://webkit.org/blog/ https://webkit.org/blog/ for instance.
jballanc 9y ago
What makes you think Safari has gone stagnant? Apple, Microsoft, and Google all have different approaches to the consumer software that they put out. Microsoft values backwards-compatibility above all else, and Google values the bleeding edge and experimentation. Apple values predictability and ease of use. For example, Google created and deployed SPDY because they thought they had a better way to do HTTP. Eventually this turned into HTTP/2, but in the meantime Google is now faced with supporting both SPDY and HTTP/2, or deprecating and removing SPDY from Chrome. Apple, on the other hand, waited for the HTTP/2 standard to be debated and ratified before implementing and distributing it to end users. Safari is released infrequently, but when it is it only contains (mostly) solid features. However, if you value the bleeding edge and are willing to tolerate some amount of breakage, you can always install the Safari Technology Preview, which releases much more frequently.
matwood 9y ago
> does anyone know WHY Apple has let its browser go stagnant? First, prove Apple has let it stagnate. Safari continues to improve with every release. The latest tech preview scores a 459 on the html5 test. The last released version scored a 419. It's still behind the other major browsers, but stagnating implies not improving which is clearly not the case. It might be a better question to ask why hasn't Safari implemented whatever certain feature you want to use, i.e. service workers.
- et2o 9y ago
  I just got a 409 on Safari 10.1.2 (12603.3.8)
  - gfredtech 9y ago
    same here
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Parent does say "The latest tech preview", notice?
    - et2o 9y ago
      Parent does say "the last released version," notice?
      - coldtea 9y ago
        That's for 10.2 (the next release version, which is not, er, released yet) as opposed to the Tech Preview. They list it here: https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
  - HNbuff 9y ago
    526 on Chrome 61.0.3163.91 478 on Firefox 55.0.3 and here's the kicker, tested on an ancient pc from 2004 with Pentium 4
- admiralpumpkin 9y ago
  464 for Safari Tech Preview R39. That said this is the weakest score of the top 4 browsers: 519 Chrome 57 518 Opera 45 474 Firefox 53 473 Edge 15 https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Funny. "Safari is the new IE", but on the other hand, "<<Best viewed with Google Chrome>> is the new <<Best viewed with IE>>". At least there isn't an obvious monopoly here...
- digi_owl 9y ago
  I think they are both right. Safari is like when MS let IE sit at v6 for ages while Mozilla et al ran ahead. Chrome is IE from back around the first browser war between MS and Netscape, by introducing new stuff before it has been properly ratified. That said i have the impression that the stewardship of Webkit was what forced Google's hand in all this, by taking forever to accept patches etc.
Sylos 9y ago
It's not necessarily as competitive as Firefox and Chrome are, but it's not particularly behind either. Definitely not far enough to justify dropping support for it, if you don't have additional motives like Spotify here. That is, Safari does not support the DRM that they want, and that makes a disproportionally big difference in their revenue.

lallysingh 9y ago

It's "good enough" that it doesn't hinder the sale of Macs. The engineers can be used on different tasks. Mozilla is generally a safe option.

twsted 9y ago

Safari is not stagnant by any means. See https://webkit.org/blog/ https://webkit.org/blog/ for instance.

jballanc 9y ago

What makes you think Safari has gone stagnant? Apple, Microsoft, and Google all have different approaches to the consumer software that they put out. Microsoft values backwards-compatibility above all else, and Google values the bleeding edge and experimentation. Apple values predictability and ease of use. For example, Google created and deployed SPDY because they thought they had a better way to do HTTP. Eventually this turned into HTTP/2, but in the meantime Google is now faced with supporting both SPDY and HTTP/2, or deprecating and removing SPDY from Chrome. Apple, on the other hand, waited for the HTTP/2 standard to be debated and ratified before implementing and distributing it to end users. Safari is released infrequently, but when it is it only contains (mostly) solid features. However, if you value the bleeding edge and are willing to tolerate some amount of breakage, you can always install the Safari Technology Preview, which releases much more frequently.

matwood 9y ago

> does anyone know WHY Apple has let its browser go stagnant? First, prove Apple has let it stagnate. Safari continues to improve with every release. The latest tech preview scores a 459 on the html5 test. The last released version scored a 419. It's still behind the other major browsers, but stagnating implies not improving which is clearly not the case. It might be a better question to ask why hasn't Safari implemented whatever certain feature you want to use, i.e. service workers.

et2o 9y ago
I just got a 409 on Safari 10.1.2 (12603.3.8)
- gfredtech 9y ago
  same here
- coldtea 9y ago
  Parent does say "The latest tech preview", notice?
  - et2o 9y ago
    Parent does say "the last released version," notice?
    - coldtea 9y ago
      That's for 10.2 (the next release version, which is not, er, released yet) as opposed to the Tech Preview. They list it here: https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
- HNbuff 9y ago
  526 on Chrome 61.0.3163.91 478 on Firefox 55.0.3 and here's the kicker, tested on an ancient pc from 2004 with Pentium 4
admiralpumpkin 9y ago
464 for Safari Tech Preview R39. That said this is the weakest score of the top 4 browsers: 519 Chrome 57 518 Opera 45 474 Firefox 53 473 Edge 15 https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html

TeMPOraL 9y ago

Funny. "Safari is the new IE", but on the other hand, "<<Best viewed with Google Chrome>> is the new <<Best viewed with IE>>". At least there isn't an obvious monopoly here...

digi_owl 9y ago
I think they are both right. Safari is like when MS let IE sit at v6 for ages while Mozilla et al ran ahead. Chrome is IE from back around the first browser war between MS and Netscape, by introducing new stuff before it has been properly ratified. That said i have the impression that the stewardship of Webkit was what forced Google's hand in all this, by taking forever to accept patches etc.

Sylos 9y ago

It's not necessarily as competitive as Firefox and Chrome are, but it's not particularly behind either. Definitely not far enough to justify dropping support for it, if you don't have additional motives like Spotify here. That is, Safari does not support the DRM that they want, and that makes a disproportionally big difference in their revenue.