4 ms·

I get it if you are a fan of Manning because you believe in the work Wikileaks does, but I don’t understand why institutions and individuals that have been larg

by eksu 9y ago

I get it if you are a fan of Manning because you believe in the work Wikileaks does, but I don’t understand why institutions and individuals that have been largely critical of Wikileaks during the 2016 election cycle also characterize Manning as a hero (not referring to Harvard but mostly the media). Perhaps we need more / different Transgender role models.

moomin 9y ago
Maybe because what Wikileaks does has changed? Publishing government documents is leaking. Getting hold of internal Democratic Party communications is Watergate.
- interstitial 9y ago
  You mean unmasking and spying on your election opponents? That watergate?
ShabbosGoy 9y ago
> but I don’t understand why institutions and individuals that have been largely critical of Wikileaks during the 2016 election cycle also characterize Manning as a hero (not referring to Harvard but mostly the media). Simply put, Wikileaks is a part of the counterculture. There's a reason why the FBI had files on subversive figures like M.L.K. Jr.
- harry8 9y ago
  Was that reason so J. Edgar Hoover could telephone M.L.K. and try and blackmail him into comitting suicide? Or was that an incidental effect?
  - ShabbosGoy 9y ago
    The incidental effects of power are quite like the effects of addiction; the addict will lie, cheat, steal, and even murder in order to maintain their addiction. When you threaten someone's power, strange things will happen to you.
harry8 9y ago
Transgender has precisely nothing to do with why reasonable people admire or condemn Manning. The admiration or condemnation is for the actions, not the personality.
- eksu 9y ago
  That’a great. I totally understand that. I just see people that dislike the actions but like the... personality?
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  I agree that it should not be part of the equation - but in our present media landscape, it absolutely is. Her being transgender will ultimately have a lot to do with public perception. There is quite a big movement right now to promote the rights of transgendered people, it's like the late 1980's for gay people - wherein stereotypes were being fought against, and issues brought into public discussion. In the era of 'social justice media' - these bits of identity are all part of the presentation. Some will regard the 'transgender' as even a deeper transgression of 'norms and values' and to others it might engender deeper sympathies - nevertheless, it definitely adds a dynamic to the story.
  - Caveman_Coder 9y ago
    > "There is quite a big movement right now to promote the rights of transgendered people, it's like the late 1980's for gay people - wherein stereotypes were being fought against, and issues brought into public discussion." I don't think the "big movement" is really all that big (.3 percent in the US). If you said they were extremely vocal and loud, then I'd agree, but to say they are a big movement is an exaggeration. > "Some will regard the 'transgender' as even a deeper transgression of 'norms and values' and to others it might engender deeper sympathies - nevertheless, it definitely adds a dynamic to the story." I think you're right on this point, some people will care about her gender situation, others, like myself will think that its a bit gross. In any case, it should be separate from what she did and the content of what she leaked.

by eksu 9y ago

moomin 9y ago

Maybe because what Wikileaks does has changed? Publishing government documents is leaking. Getting hold of internal Democratic Party communications is Watergate.

interstitial 9y ago
You mean unmasking and spying on your election opponents? That watergate?

ShabbosGoy 9y ago

> but I don’t understand why institutions and individuals that have been largely critical of Wikileaks during the 2016 election cycle also characterize Manning as a hero (not referring to Harvard but mostly the media). Simply put, Wikileaks is a part of the counterculture. There's a reason why the FBI had files on subversive figures like M.L.K. Jr.

harry8 9y ago
Was that reason so J. Edgar Hoover could telephone M.L.K. and try and blackmail him into comitting suicide? Or was that an incidental effect?
- ShabbosGoy 9y ago
  The incidental effects of power are quite like the effects of addiction; the addict will lie, cheat, steal, and even murder in order to maintain their addiction. When you threaten someone's power, strange things will happen to you.

harry8 9y ago

Transgender has precisely nothing to do with why reasonable people admire or condemn Manning. The admiration or condemnation is for the actions, not the personality.

eksu 9y ago
That’a great. I totally understand that. I just see people that dislike the actions but like the... personality?
alexasmyths 9y ago
I agree that it should not be part of the equation - but in our present media landscape, it absolutely is. Her being transgender will ultimately have a lot to do with public perception. There is quite a big movement right now to promote the rights of transgendered people, it's like the late 1980's for gay people - wherein stereotypes were being fought against, and issues brought into public discussion. In the era of 'social justice media' - these bits of identity are all part of the presentation. Some will regard the 'transgender' as even a deeper transgression of 'norms and values' and to others it might engender deeper sympathies - nevertheless, it definitely adds a dynamic to the story.
- Caveman_Coder 9y ago
  > "There is quite a big movement right now to promote the rights of transgendered people, it's like the late 1980's for gay people - wherein stereotypes were being fought against, and issues brought into public discussion." I don't think the "big movement" is really all that big (.3 percent in the US). If you said they were extremely vocal and loud, then I'd agree, but to say they are a big movement is an exaggeration. > "Some will regard the 'transgender' as even a deeper transgression of 'norms and values' and to others it might engender deeper sympathies - nevertheless, it definitely adds a dynamic to the story." I think you're right on this point, some people will care about her gender situation, others, like myself will think that its a bit gross. In any case, it should be separate from what she did and the content of what she leaked.