6 ms·

> And no single, sonic gadget seems to explain such an odd, inconsistent array of physical responses. Is it possible the sounds heard were illusory, as a resul

by Osmium 9y ago

> And no single, sonic gadget seems to explain such an odd, inconsistent array of physical responses. Is it possible the sounds heard were illusory, as a result of whatever caused the brain damage? So not a sonic weapon, but some other mechanism of action? > The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. So something that can be focused at a specific point. If not a sonic weapon, then it has to be electromagnetic? Talk about bizarre. Whole thing reads like a conspiracy theory. Presuming the reporting is accurate, it's hard not to believe people were specifically targeted with the internet to harm them (rather than the alternative explanation of an espionage technology gone wrong), if the effects were localized on their beds (i.e. a specific physical location where they would be known to be for several hours).

FreeFull 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect It's definitely possible for electromagnetic radiation to cause audible sounds. The thing that's confusing me is what sort of motive one would have to do this.
- SolarNet 9y ago
  As another person posted. It's probably a surveillance attempt gone awry.
- baq 9y ago
  those passive bugs need power to operate
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- rotrux 9y ago
  Several small devices with low-powered microwave-beams might be able to do interesting things at beam-intersection points: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwiApuqO0qfWAhUpqVQKHdVcDXUQFghJMAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cockcroft.ac.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Fbeambeam-werner.pdf https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
- cat199 9y ago
  though I'm very weary of the russian boogeyman theory which seems to be behind everything these days.. there is actually a case here assuming russian-cuban ties are still strong after the USSR - e.g. if USA is trying to clean up shop entirely, it could be a warning that such activity will not be taken lightly..
alain_gilbert 9y ago
I know it sounds crazy, but my refrigerator beam some whistle alike sounds. If I move my head like one foot beside I don't hear the sound, but one foot on the other side and I hear the whistle. Edit: I have a video of it, it's not as clear in the video as it is in real life though. You have to put volume at 100%.(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h7n46kzqarzt0l/fridge.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h7n46kzqarzt0l/fridge.mp4?dl=0)
- IshKebab 9y ago
  That's just a normal high frequency standing wave. You're moving your head in and out of the nodes (where the waves destructively interfere).
- wruza 9y ago
  This happened to me too when I lived in a house near to local boiling station. Once the same truck parked with its engine on near the station (service or supply, maybe), my room had many points where you can easily get panic or stress attacks. It was probably focused infrasound, not high-pitch, but few hours after, especially in sleep, I began to feel it even without that truck. Self-deception is very inductive thing. I think that the article describes the aftereffects of something like geological activity, so while its roots are real, the consequences are the product of "tired" minds. I heard also that if doctors allow their clients to speak about symptoms in waiting room, then many of them start having these "group symptoms" and diagnostics may go very wrong way.
  - mynewtb 9y ago
    Is it possible to measure and map those places with affordable equipment?
  - jrochkind1 9y ago
    what's a boiling station? google isn't helping me.
    - wruza 9y ago
Iv 9y ago
If I had some R&D spying budgets and no health regulation concerns, I would try to see how I could make remote RMI or tomography work, possibly through walls. But I suspect something more mudane: a microwave beam, intended at powering a listening device seems more likely. The weird thing is why the Cuban do not switch it off now that it has been detected.
- kybernetikos 9y ago
  It seems more likely that it is someone who wishes to harm US/Cuba diplomatic relations rather than the Cuban government.
TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
> Is it possible the sounds heard were illusory, as a result of whatever caused the brain damage? I thought of that too. Possible PTSD among many of the affected?
userbinator 9y ago
If it was a beam of microwave radiation as many others here are guessing, then there may also be evidence of damaged electronics in the beam's path. The power levels required to cause physical injury are definitely detectable with very simple circuitry (RF diode in series with an LED, and a very short antenna), so these people could carry one on their person to determine if it is directed RF, if it happens again. Ironically, these "attacks" could be easily defeated by literally wearing a tinfoil hat...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  An LED is it's own diode (hence the 'D'), it'd be nice if they worked in the RF domain :) Wonder if it is possible to do this without the series diode for more sensitivity.
  - kurthr 9y ago
    Standard LEDs will work into the GHz. You also need a return path for the current (diode rectifies in one direction).. preferably a resistor that puts the decay time constant in a visible period (e.g. few ms). However, you're correct old crystal radios worked like this. Condenser Mics might also work with some rectification.
- hultner 9y ago
  From what I've gathered a tinfoil hat would have the reverse effect, acting as a parabolic antenna directing radio waves into the persons head.
  - nbdev 9y ago
    Maybe a Faraday cage out of foil could work? It's been asked here before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9660752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9660752
  - planteen 9y ago
    It would probably work if you made it out of copper foil and grounded it. But then of course you are no longer mobile and the enemy could easily snip the ground wire coming out of your hotel room. ;-)
snarfy 9y ago
This was my thought as well. The sound is a red herring. A large enough EM blast would polarize anything in that room that could work like an antenna e.g. keys, paper clips, anything. Add a magnet near by or even another paper clip at a different polarization angle and you get vibration.
digikata 9y ago
There are cases of tooth fillings causing sound/pain in em fields. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3638/is-it-possible-to-pick-up-radio-signals-from-dental-fillings https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3638/is-it-poss...
c3534l 9y ago
> a result of whatever caused the brain damage That seems to be the obvious explanation to me. They were exposed to some sort of chemical which caused a stroke or seizure or migraine or whatever. Hell, there's no reason to think it couldn't have been a disease.
neuralzen 9y ago
There is a sound device that acts like a laser, where ultrasonic waves are created such that their interference pattern interact at a specific location, to drop into audible sound at that location only. Perhaps it was something similar, but meant to 'tap a person's ear drum vibrations to hear what they hear, and something went wrong? Just speculation... http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/

by Osmium 9y ago

FreeFull 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect It's definitely possible for electromagnetic radiation to cause audible sounds. The thing that's confusing me is what sort of motive one would have to do this.

SolarNet 9y ago
As another person posted. It's probably a surveillance attempt gone awry.
baq 9y ago
those passive bugs need power to operate
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
rotrux 9y ago
Several small devices with low-powered microwave-beams might be able to do interesting things at beam-intersection points: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwiApuqO0qfWAhUpqVQKHdVcDXUQFghJMAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cockcroft.ac.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Fbeambeam-werner.pdf https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
cat199 9y ago
though I'm very weary of the russian boogeyman theory which seems to be behind everything these days.. there is actually a case here assuming russian-cuban ties are still strong after the USSR - e.g. if USA is trying to clean up shop entirely, it could be a warning that such activity will not be taken lightly..

alain_gilbert 9y ago

I know it sounds crazy, but my refrigerator beam some whistle alike sounds. If I move my head like one foot beside I don't hear the sound, but one foot on the other side and I hear the whistle. Edit: I have a video of it, it's not as clear in the video as it is in real life though. You have to put volume at 100%.(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h7n46kzqarzt0l/fridge.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h7n46kzqarzt0l/fridge.mp4?dl=0)

IshKebab 9y ago
That's just a normal high frequency standing wave. You're moving your head in and out of the nodes (where the waves destructively interfere).
wruza 9y ago
This happened to me too when I lived in a house near to local boiling station. Once the same truck parked with its engine on near the station (service or supply, maybe), my room had many points where you can easily get panic or stress attacks. It was probably focused infrasound, not high-pitch, but few hours after, especially in sleep, I began to feel it even without that truck. Self-deception is very inductive thing. I think that the article describes the aftereffects of something like geological activity, so while its roots are real, the consequences are the product of "tired" minds. I heard also that if doctors allow their clients to speak about symptoms in waiting room, then many of them start having these "group symptoms" and diagnostics may go very wrong way.
- mynewtb 9y ago
  Is it possible to measure and map those places with affordable equipment?
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  what's a boiling station? google isn't helping me.
  - wruza 9y ago

Iv 9y ago

If I had some R&D spying budgets and no health regulation concerns, I would try to see how I could make remote RMI or tomography work, possibly through walls. But I suspect something more mudane: a microwave beam, intended at powering a listening device seems more likely. The weird thing is why the Cuban do not switch it off now that it has been detected.

kybernetikos 9y ago
It seems more likely that it is someone who wishes to harm US/Cuba diplomatic relations rather than the Cuban government.

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago

> Is it possible the sounds heard were illusory, as a result of whatever caused the brain damage? I thought of that too. Possible PTSD among many of the affected?

userbinator 9y ago

If it was a beam of microwave radiation as many others here are guessing, then there may also be evidence of damaged electronics in the beam's path. The power levels required to cause physical injury are definitely detectable with very simple circuitry (RF diode in series with an LED, and a very short antenna), so these people could carry one on their person to determine if it is directed RF, if it happens again. Ironically, these "attacks" could be easily defeated by literally wearing a tinfoil hat...

jacquesm 9y ago
An LED is it's own diode (hence the 'D'), it'd be nice if they worked in the RF domain :) Wonder if it is possible to do this without the series diode for more sensitivity.
- kurthr 9y ago
  Standard LEDs will work into the GHz. You also need a return path for the current (diode rectifies in one direction).. preferably a resistor that puts the decay time constant in a visible period (e.g. few ms). However, you're correct old crystal radios worked like this. Condenser Mics might also work with some rectification.
hultner 9y ago
From what I've gathered a tinfoil hat would have the reverse effect, acting as a parabolic antenna directing radio waves into the persons head.
- nbdev 9y ago
  Maybe a Faraday cage out of foil could work? It's been asked here before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9660752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9660752
- planteen 9y ago
  It would probably work if you made it out of copper foil and grounded it. But then of course you are no longer mobile and the enemy could easily snip the ground wire coming out of your hotel room. ;-)

snarfy 9y ago

This was my thought as well. The sound is a red herring. A large enough EM blast would polarize anything in that room that could work like an antenna e.g. keys, paper clips, anything. Add a magnet near by or even another paper clip at a different polarization angle and you get vibration.

digikata 9y ago

There are cases of tooth fillings causing sound/pain in em fields. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3638/is-it-possible-to-pick-up-radio-signals-from-dental-fillings https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3638/is-it-poss...

c3534l 9y ago

> a result of whatever caused the brain damage That seems to be the obvious explanation to me. They were exposed to some sort of chemical which caused a stroke or seizure or migraine or whatever. Hell, there's no reason to think it couldn't have been a disease.

neuralzen 9y ago

There is a sound device that acts like a laser, where ultrasonic waves are created such that their interference pattern interact at a specific location, to drop into audible sound at that location only. Perhaps it was something similar, but meant to 'tap a person's ear drum vibrations to hear what they hear, and something went wrong? Just speculation... http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/