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> a thread emerged about abusive spouses. Now if I'm honest, I didn't see that angle coming and it made me curious - what is the angle? I mean how does Face ID

by irq-1 9y ago

> a thread emerged about abusive spouses. Now if I'm honest, I didn't see that angle coming and it made me curious - what is the angle? I mean how does Face ID pose a greater threat to victims of domestic violence than the previous auth models? If someone has the PIN and the phone, they can get in without the person (without their biometrics.) Fingerprints and Face recognition increase the chances that an abusive spouse needs the other person every time they access the phone. Parents who have their childrens passwords are in the same situation -- they can't snoop on their kids biometrically secured phone (like reading a kids diary in the old days.) They have to have the kids open the phone, which means the kids know that it's happening.

irrational 9y ago
I'm not sure, but I know with my spouse and I, we always put each others Biometrics into each other's devices (I add her fingerprints to my phone and vice versa), share a lastpass account so we know each other's passwords, add our email accounts to each other's devices so we can always look at each others email, etc. If you are married to someone and don't trust them enough to do the same I have to question the foundation the marriage is built on. As for kids, we just don't allow them to have a phone or other device until they are old enough to buy it with their own money, which so far has never happened until they are nearly 18 and getting ready to leave for college anyway.
- SirZimzim 9y ago
  What the hell
  - cjbillington 9y ago
    I don't think it's completely insane, but I think the parent comment overestimates the proportion of marriages that have that kind of trust. If people didn't get married without 100% trust then most people wouldn't be married, and evidence is that people prefer imperfect relationships to loneliness. It's also useful to have a norm against doing these things even if you have 100% trust, because it's probably the case that people are too readily fooled (by themselves or a manipulative partner) into thinking they have 100 % trust when they actually don't. So having a norm against sharing everything protects the people who need it, even if you're not among those people.
- justsid 9y ago
  Not trying to tell you how to live your life, but being an open book to the other isn‘t very trusting. If your trust is build around being able to spy on the other, maybe you aren‘t trusting each other that much. My wife and I both have our own separate phones and computers without each other being able to access it and I trust her not to do anything that goes against our interests and vice versa. That‘s what trust is, not having to know what the other does and knowing they are doing the right thing.
  - lbarrett 9y ago
    I also let my spouse unlock my phone. It's not so much "being an open book" as it is "I trust her not to snoop, and sometimes it's convenient that she can open a map on my phone." That meets your definition of trust: not having to know what she does because I know she'll do the right thing.
    - justsid 9y ago
      Very fair point. In fact, my wife actually knows my phones passcode for the exact same reason. „Open book“ was definitely the wrong phrasing here, I wasn‘t trying to say that you have to keep everything secret from your spouse. Just that the exact opposite of that also strikes me as very distrusting.
  - irrational 9y ago
    Its kind of perverse to jump to spying, don't you think? I'm not spying on my wife or she on me. Even though I have her email on my phone, in the past year I think I've only been in there twice, both times when she asked me to look for something for her. I know she doesn't look at mine either because she just doesn't care.
  - glhaynes 9y ago
    There are also lots of people in abusive (or just "problematic") relationships for whom some privacy around their phone can be extremely valuable. That's why I'd prefer the societal norm to be NOT sharing credentials. Which of course doesn't mean that all people have to follow that.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cakedoggie 9y ago
  > If you are married to someone and don't trust them enough to do the same I have to question the foundation the marriage is built on. This is such a stupid attitude. It is your way or nothing, right?
scott_karana 9y ago
So... wouldn't that make biometrics a lesser threat?
djrogers 9y ago
> Fingerprints and Face recognition increase the chances that an abusive spouse needs the other person every time they access the phone. No they don’t - you have always been able to use a PIN a instead of touchID, so knowing the pin still works just as well with or without it.

by irq-1 9y ago

irrational 9y ago

I'm not sure, but I know with my spouse and I, we always put each others Biometrics into each other's devices (I add her fingerprints to my phone and vice versa), share a lastpass account so we know each other's passwords, add our email accounts to each other's devices so we can always look at each others email, etc. If you are married to someone and don't trust them enough to do the same I have to question the foundation the marriage is built on. As for kids, we just don't allow them to have a phone or other device until they are old enough to buy it with their own money, which so far has never happened until they are nearly 18 and getting ready to leave for college anyway.

SirZimzim 9y ago
What the hell
- cjbillington 9y ago
  I don't think it's completely insane, but I think the parent comment overestimates the proportion of marriages that have that kind of trust. If people didn't get married without 100% trust then most people wouldn't be married, and evidence is that people prefer imperfect relationships to loneliness. It's also useful to have a norm against doing these things even if you have 100% trust, because it's probably the case that people are too readily fooled (by themselves or a manipulative partner) into thinking they have 100 % trust when they actually don't. So having a norm against sharing everything protects the people who need it, even if you're not among those people.
justsid 9y ago
Not trying to tell you how to live your life, but being an open book to the other isn‘t very trusting. If your trust is build around being able to spy on the other, maybe you aren‘t trusting each other that much. My wife and I both have our own separate phones and computers without each other being able to access it and I trust her not to do anything that goes against our interests and vice versa. That‘s what trust is, not having to know what the other does and knowing they are doing the right thing.
- lbarrett 9y ago
  I also let my spouse unlock my phone. It's not so much "being an open book" as it is "I trust her not to snoop, and sometimes it's convenient that she can open a map on my phone." That meets your definition of trust: not having to know what she does because I know she'll do the right thing.
  - justsid 9y ago
    Very fair point. In fact, my wife actually knows my phones passcode for the exact same reason. „Open book“ was definitely the wrong phrasing here, I wasn‘t trying to say that you have to keep everything secret from your spouse. Just that the exact opposite of that also strikes me as very distrusting.
- irrational 9y ago
  Its kind of perverse to jump to spying, don't you think? I'm not spying on my wife or she on me. Even though I have her email on my phone, in the past year I think I've only been in there twice, both times when she asked me to look for something for her. I know she doesn't look at mine either because she just doesn't care.
- glhaynes 9y ago
  There are also lots of people in abusive (or just "problematic") relationships for whom some privacy around their phone can be extremely valuable. That's why I'd prefer the societal norm to be NOT sharing credentials. Which of course doesn't mean that all people have to follow that.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cakedoggie 9y ago
> If you are married to someone and don't trust them enough to do the same I have to question the foundation the marriage is built on. This is such a stupid attitude. It is your way or nothing, right?

scott_karana 9y ago

So... wouldn't that make biometrics a lesser threat?

djrogers 9y ago

> Fingerprints and Face recognition increase the chances that an abusive spouse needs the other person every time they access the phone. No they don’t - you have always been able to use a PIN a instead of touchID, so knowing the pin still works just as well with or without it.