7 ms·

maybe the top 1%is having meta fun, but from what I seen the rest might as well be playing Excell spreadsheets

by mm4 9y ago

ablation 9y ago
I guess they derive enjoyment from it though, otherwise why would they be playing?
- thisacctforreal 9y ago
  (Edit: mildly off-topic, hopefully fine since GP is grey) From what I understand Eve takes a lot of real-time investment and dedication to succeed. After you get far you have to maintain the relationships you built with people, and the responsibilities you share with them. Tribal Wars (unfortunately now pay to win) and Puzzle Pirates are two games I've played that share that aspect, though both have no where near the same amount of mechanics, content, and dedicated playerbase. But yes, if lack of enjoyment/reward crosses a threshold, players quit. Which often forfeit their position in these kinds of games. edit: Not sure on the "rejoinability" of Eve, I assume it relies on the player's progress and social standing, multiplied by how lax the in-game trading rules are. (Giving away ships+currency before you quit, getting ships back when you rejoin)
  - busterarm 9y ago
    I played EVE for the better part of about 10 years. Been to Fanfest, met Mittens (and Vile Rat, RIP :() and all that. I owe my closest friendships and even my career to EVE. I'll expand on this in a bit. While I did spend a few years floundering around in the game like most players do, I was lucky enough to get close to the major political action early on when the first alliance I was a part of, ISS, collapsed. The ties and relationships that I built here got me in-system to watch the first (BoB) Titan kill with my own eyes. A few years later when wormhole space opened up, I jumped on that immediately and got involved with a corporation dedicated to taking advantage of the new resources and PvP opportunities. Within a few months I was an officer in the corporation and we had brought in some local blues doing manufacturing in a merger. I had a pretty good relationship with these guys; a group of three students from Denmark. It became clear to me right away that my corp's CEO plan here was to screw these guys over and steal all of their assets, as well as the rest of the assets of the corp and do a runner. Without cluing him in, I managed to help everyone in my corporation secure their assets and he got away with nothing but the corp's wallet, which I made an effort to drain (spread out to members) and left only about 8bil ISK. Immediately after, these students and I joined one of the most well known RP/lowsec PvP corps in the history of EVE and started our own manufacturing corporation on the side which turned into somewhat of a mini-empire. The students were programmers and I now had a practical use for a life-long hobby(but not really the inclination or skills to do professionally at the time). One of them is probably my closest friend today. We routinely discuss the idea of one of us relocating and starting a real business together. Other friends that I made in this corporation I still talk to on a daily basis...even after a few years away from EVE. Eventually our CEO had to shutter the corporation, as he took a job with CCP; most of us were getting older and finding it hard to find time for the game anyway and quit, myself included. My account still has a few hundred billion ISK sitting in its wallet. I resist the urge to pop in and get deep into the game again, but it's frequently there. I've had some breathtakingly beautiful moments and experiences with people in my life because of this crazy game. I'd done just about everything you could do in the game while I was playing it and had about 4 accounts at any given time. A lot of quitting players complain about not being able to find the real action in the game...while it's hard, everyone who can read the forums can find out who the important, active corporations are in game. Seek them out, be available and make friends and then make enemies.
    - mattmanser 9y ago
      The big trouble with eve is the time/reward factor. Ultimately you can spend a whole night trying to find fights in Eve and get 2 or 3 fights that last 20 seconds. Or you can play 10 matches of overwatch or CS:Go or DOTA that last 30 minutes in the same time. It still doesn't have a decent competitor though, elite dangerous is rubbish, still waiting on Star Citizen.
      - JWLong 9y ago
        The trouble with trying to play any of those games, after having played Eve, is that none of them measure up. :/ Longinius Spear once quoted Ernest Hemmingway, in a presentation at Eve: Vegas, "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddR7W4LmR8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddR7W4LmR8
        busterarm 9y ago
        This is absolutely 100% true. Edit: Actually I prefer this response: I think how true an EVE player finds the above statement is a good indicator of how effectively they played the game to begin with.
        mattmanser 9y ago
        That's simply not true, eventually you'll realize it's all a big con and it really is far more enjoyable playing those other games. Personally I think that if you believe that you're still in the delusion phase where you're projecting your fantasy of what playing Eve should be like, compared to what playing Eve is actually like. That fantasy lasted a long time for me, like 3/4 years. In reality battles are copying someone's prescribed fit, click a direction to align, letting your squad leader warp you. Eventually you might actually get a fight, which consists entirely of clicking the first name on an alphabetically sorted list and pressing F1. There's no skill, only the adrenaline rush of losing something you spent 2 weeks grinding for. And don't forget, you spend 2 hours or even days between each of these battles waiting to even start the fight. The big contradiction in Eve is that the thrill comes from permadeath, but it's only a thrill because the grinding is onerous. If everyone had infinite isk, no-one would play it because the fundamental combat gameplay is super boring.
  - yuubi 9y ago
    Anything left in space will likely be destroyed or stolen. Anything in stations (ships, parts, materials, etc) and your cash will still be where you left them. If that's a player-owned station that changed hands while you were out, or you get kicked from corp for inactivity, you won't be able to dock to get at them, but you can try to firesale them (post a contract offer to sell the lot cheap), and likely someone with access to the station will buy. Often people who are leaving will either have their assets moved somewhere they'll certainly have access to later or just liquidate (generally on better than firesale terms). Citadels (like the keepstar that changed hands) work differently: you can get everything in a citadel moved to the nearest suitable npc station at the cost of 15% of its value and a 20-day wait, worst case (google "eve asset safety" for the full details).
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Depends. The top 1% are playing political games, beyond even spreadsheets. A percentage finds the logistics part fun, handling excel sheets and resources and production, either for their own gains or that of their corporation or alliance. Another percentage goes for the pvp, dealing with control of their spaceship, tactics, the meta of their ship and equipment vs that of their opponents. There's a lot to this game and it's not just spreadsheets, that's only a percentage of the game.
- TheRealDunkirk 9y ago
  > The top 1% are playing political games This is the thing that absolutely flummoxes me about the "game." Most gamers are geeks, but most geeks I've known into have little patience for political games. Yet, here's one of the most-successful and longest-running MMOPG's, and it's -- from what I can gather -- almost entirely political. I just can't wrap my head around it. I even have a hard time reading these post-mortems. The whole business seems to cater to some sub-sub-sub category of geek that doesn't lie in the direction of Myers-Briggs IN?? types. Does anyone know what those types might be? (All discussion of the usefulness or accuracy of these categories aside.)
  - dmoy 9y ago
    MMOs often have alliances and political intrigue. It's not just Eve, though Eve definitely takes the cake. I've played n>2 different MMOs where there's a large cohort of politically savvy players pulling the strings. Sometimes it's just out of necessity - if you want the coolest stuff in the game you have to organize groups because that's how the game is set up. So by definition it filters success towards those that organize bigger and better alliances.
  - nmeofthestate 9y ago
    Think of open source controversies - I reckon there are plenty of geeks with the will to power.
JWLong 9y ago
I have had a metric fuckton of fun, in my four year career. I've rarely dealt with politics, and only used a spreadsheet, once (so far). Mostly, I just get drunk on a Friday night, with buddies, and we go blow shit up.
mcv 9y ago
I think it's especially the top that is playing Excell spreadsheets. That's what comes with controlling big corporations and alliances, I suspect.

maybe the top 1%is having meta fun, but from what I seen the rest might as well be playing Excell spreadsheets

by mm4 9y ago

maybe the top 1%is having meta fun, but from what I seen the rest might as well be playing Excell spreadsheets

ablation 9y ago

I guess they derive enjoyment from it though, otherwise why would they be playing?

thisacctforreal 9y ago
(Edit: mildly off-topic, hopefully fine since GP is grey) From what I understand Eve takes a lot of real-time investment and dedication to succeed. After you get far you have to maintain the relationships you built with people, and the responsibilities you share with them. Tribal Wars (unfortunately now pay to win) and Puzzle Pirates are two games I've played that share that aspect, though both have no where near the same amount of mechanics, content, and dedicated playerbase. But yes, if lack of enjoyment/reward crosses a threshold, players quit. Which often forfeit their position in these kinds of games. edit: Not sure on the "rejoinability" of Eve, I assume it relies on the player's progress and social standing, multiplied by how lax the in-game trading rules are. (Giving away ships+currency before you quit, getting ships back when you rejoin)
- busterarm 9y ago
  I played EVE for the better part of about 10 years. Been to Fanfest, met Mittens (and Vile Rat, RIP :() and all that. I owe my closest friendships and even my career to EVE. I'll expand on this in a bit. While I did spend a few years floundering around in the game like most players do, I was lucky enough to get close to the major political action early on when the first alliance I was a part of, ISS, collapsed. The ties and relationships that I built here got me in-system to watch the first (BoB) Titan kill with my own eyes. A few years later when wormhole space opened up, I jumped on that immediately and got involved with a corporation dedicated to taking advantage of the new resources and PvP opportunities. Within a few months I was an officer in the corporation and we had brought in some local blues doing manufacturing in a merger. I had a pretty good relationship with these guys; a group of three students from Denmark. It became clear to me right away that my corp's CEO plan here was to screw these guys over and steal all of their assets, as well as the rest of the assets of the corp and do a runner. Without cluing him in, I managed to help everyone in my corporation secure their assets and he got away with nothing but the corp's wallet, which I made an effort to drain (spread out to members) and left only about 8bil ISK. Immediately after, these students and I joined one of the most well known RP/lowsec PvP corps in the history of EVE and started our own manufacturing corporation on the side which turned into somewhat of a mini-empire. The students were programmers and I now had a practical use for a life-long hobby(but not really the inclination or skills to do professionally at the time). One of them is probably my closest friend today. We routinely discuss the idea of one of us relocating and starting a real business together. Other friends that I made in this corporation I still talk to on a daily basis...even after a few years away from EVE. Eventually our CEO had to shutter the corporation, as he took a job with CCP; most of us were getting older and finding it hard to find time for the game anyway and quit, myself included. My account still has a few hundred billion ISK sitting in its wallet. I resist the urge to pop in and get deep into the game again, but it's frequently there. I've had some breathtakingly beautiful moments and experiences with people in my life because of this crazy game. I'd done just about everything you could do in the game while I was playing it and had about 4 accounts at any given time. A lot of quitting players complain about not being able to find the real action in the game...while it's hard, everyone who can read the forums can find out who the important, active corporations are in game. Seek them out, be available and make friends and then make enemies.
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    The big trouble with eve is the time/reward factor. Ultimately you can spend a whole night trying to find fights in Eve and get 2 or 3 fights that last 20 seconds. Or you can play 10 matches of overwatch or CS:Go or DOTA that last 30 minutes in the same time. It still doesn't have a decent competitor though, elite dangerous is rubbish, still waiting on Star Citizen.
    - JWLong 9y ago
      The trouble with trying to play any of those games, after having played Eve, is that none of them measure up. :/ Longinius Spear once quoted Ernest Hemmingway, in a presentation at Eve: Vegas, "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddR7W4LmR8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddR7W4LmR8
      - busterarm 9y ago
        This is absolutely 100% true. Edit: Actually I prefer this response: I think how true an EVE player finds the above statement is a good indicator of how effectively they played the game to begin with.
      - mattmanser 9y ago
        That's simply not true, eventually you'll realize it's all a big con and it really is far more enjoyable playing those other games. Personally I think that if you believe that you're still in the delusion phase where you're projecting your fantasy of what playing Eve should be like, compared to what playing Eve is actually like. That fantasy lasted a long time for me, like 3/4 years. In reality battles are copying someone's prescribed fit, click a direction to align, letting your squad leader warp you. Eventually you might actually get a fight, which consists entirely of clicking the first name on an alphabetically sorted list and pressing F1. There's no skill, only the adrenaline rush of losing something you spent 2 weeks grinding for. And don't forget, you spend 2 hours or even days between each of these battles waiting to even start the fight. The big contradiction in Eve is that the thrill comes from permadeath, but it's only a thrill because the grinding is onerous. If everyone had infinite isk, no-one would play it because the fundamental combat gameplay is super boring.
- yuubi 9y ago
  Anything left in space will likely be destroyed or stolen. Anything in stations (ships, parts, materials, etc) and your cash will still be where you left them. If that's a player-owned station that changed hands while you were out, or you get kicked from corp for inactivity, you won't be able to dock to get at them, but you can try to firesale them (post a contract offer to sell the lot cheap), and likely someone with access to the station will buy. Often people who are leaving will either have their assets moved somewhere they'll certainly have access to later or just liquidate (generally on better than firesale terms). Citadels (like the keepstar that changed hands) work differently: you can get everything in a citadel moved to the nearest suitable npc station at the cost of 15% of its value and a 20-day wait, worst case (google "eve asset safety" for the full details).

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

Depends. The top 1% are playing political games, beyond even spreadsheets. A percentage finds the logistics part fun, handling excel sheets and resources and production, either for their own gains or that of their corporation or alliance. Another percentage goes for the pvp, dealing with control of their spaceship, tactics, the meta of their ship and equipment vs that of their opponents. There's a lot to this game and it's not just spreadsheets, that's only a percentage of the game.

TheRealDunkirk 9y ago
> The top 1% are playing political games This is the thing that absolutely flummoxes me about the "game." Most gamers are geeks, but most geeks I've known into have little patience for political games. Yet, here's one of the most-successful and longest-running MMOPG's, and it's -- from what I can gather -- almost entirely political. I just can't wrap my head around it. I even have a hard time reading these post-mortems. The whole business seems to cater to some sub-sub-sub category of geek that doesn't lie in the direction of Myers-Briggs IN?? types. Does anyone know what those types might be? (All discussion of the usefulness or accuracy of these categories aside.)
- dmoy 9y ago
  MMOs often have alliances and political intrigue. It's not just Eve, though Eve definitely takes the cake. I've played n>2 different MMOs where there's a large cohort of politically savvy players pulling the strings. Sometimes it's just out of necessity - if you want the coolest stuff in the game you have to organize groups because that's how the game is set up. So by definition it filters success towards those that organize bigger and better alliances.
- nmeofthestate 9y ago
  Think of open source controversies - I reckon there are plenty of geeks with the will to power.

JWLong 9y ago

I have had a metric fuckton of fun, in my four year career. I've rarely dealt with politics, and only used a spreadsheet, once (so far). Mostly, I just get drunk on a Friday night, with buddies, and we go blow shit up.

mcv 9y ago

I think it's especially the top that is playing Excell spreadsheets. That's what comes with controlling big corporations and alliances, I suspect.