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I unlock my phone in my pocket with Touch ID all the time - ready to go and on the home screen by the time I've flipped it around in my hand. Feels like a strai
by chris_7 9y ago
I unlock my phone in my pocket with Touch ID all the time - ready to go and on the home screen by the time I've flipped it around in my hand. Feels like a straight downgrade in usability.
also, some engineer at apple had to continuously grow a beard to test this
- dan1234 9y agoI think speed of the facial recognition will make or break this. If it takes less than 500ms of me staring at it to unlock it could feel fluid enough. Any longer and it'll be annoying every time.
- davrosthedalek 9y ago500ms is a LOOONG time. That's about how long my S8 needs, and I always question whether it works this time. 100ms or so would be great.
- kfriede 9y agoI may be wrong, but I remember reading something that most humans can't notice any lag below 200ms.
- chris_7 9y agoDefinitely noticeable in gaming, 200ms is unplayable.
- vesrah 9y agoDepends on how the game is tuned to handle it. Somehow we all played Quake / UT back in the day with that kind of ping.
- wlesieutre 9y agoFaceID with lag compensation! As soon as it sees a face it starts to unlock based on a fast prediction, then if the authoritative secure side of the chip says "No, authentication actually failed" it rolls back the clock and relocks itself!
- rootlocus 9y ago200ms can refer to network latency, input latency, frame render time, etc.
- aetherson 9y agoYou can notice sub-200ms lag, but for when you aren't specifically watching for lag or firing a series of rapid events one-after-another, sub-200ms seems to be roughly the point where it "feels instantaneous."
- Splines 9y agoIn my experience a little under 100ms "feels" instantaneous.
- coolsunglasses 9y agoThat's absolutely not true. I can tell the difference between 60 hz (16ms) and my 144 hz monitor. I can tell when my 144 hz monitor is accidentally running at a lower refresh rate, including 120, 100, 75, and 60. 200 ms is like a full react/response time for a human to take action in response to input, our actual sense of time is much finer than what our nervous system can make our muscles do.
- chris_7 9y agoIs that because of the faster refresh rate, or because none of those divide evenly into 144 and thus you're getting weird frame stretching? Curious as I just got back into gaming after several years and everyone seems to love 144fps now, wondering if I should upgrade. I have a 1080Ti, so I could presumably render that
- TylerE 9y agoG-sync my dude. No frame stretching/sync tears.
- chris_7 9y agoAh, I was just wondering if running a 144hz monitor at 60hz was like watching a 24fps movie at 30fps... if that makes sense? But the monitor can just switch its actual refresh rate.
- TylerE 9y agoYeah, it'll really trick. Upgraded to a 165hz G-Sync panel recently and it was a revelation after running at a v-synced 60hz for years and years. Order the 1080TI about a week later as the 970 I had wasn't cutting it at 1440p.
- a_t48 9y agoIf you've got a 1080TI you likely don't need gsync - it's only really useful when you're running slower than native refresh rate.
- s_kilk 9y ago200ms is five frames/changes per second, and is definitely very noticeable. You may be thinking of a figure closer to about 12ms or so, which is the approximate threshold of perception for audio lag.
- grrowl 9y agoiPhone X's front camera shoots at 60fps
- dan1234 9y agoLooked like it was reasonably quick in the demo.
- heyheyhey 9y agoAgreed. If it's fast enough to unlock by the time my face is facing the iPhone, then I'm not losing any productivity there. e: But watching the keynote, it's definitely doesn't seem that fast...
- ehsankia 9y agoI disagree. First off, as the person above said, you can start the unlocking process long before it's even facing with with touch-id, as you're taking it out of your pocket. With this, this "timer" starts only when it's fully out and facing you. Next up, in this, it has to be facing you perfectly. You can't unlock it sneakily under the table, you can't do it while someone else is looking at your phone, etc. Lastly, you still need to manually swipe to actually open the phone, so it's not like you're not using your finger either. If at least you could unlock it without using your hands that would be something. At the end of the day, I still want to see properly reviews of what the actual successrate is too. It's not all about speed, if it fails 5% of the time, that's extremely annoying.
- balls187 9y agoit looked pretty slow on the demo. In the order of 1500ms. TouchID is much faster.
- craigyk 9y agoThe unlock itself actually looked pretty fast... it just seemed a bit awkward that it had to be paired with a swipe to unlock.
- agumonkey 9y agoTrue, it's three things: - attention - faceid - swipe And no cue to know if faceid worked before swiping. I couldn't see cues (maybe I missed them).
- nixy 9y agoExcept for that large padlock icon that shows the unlocked state when Face ID has identified you?
- agumonkey 9y agoAight, I failed, but it's really not how I like such information conveyed.
- sjwright 9y agoAgreed. I'd want the phone to look "more asleep" when locked, e.g. a dimmed or vignetted background photo which would pop to life when unlocked.
- agumonkey 9y agoSomething that "pop" yes. A border flash, a hint at the bottom that means "you can swipe now". The [un]lock icon can stay but it's to high focus to be a good UI. To be honest, with the full glass, I expected something like.. a full screen fingerprint scanner (have no idea if it's feasible at all). I thing TouchID is the best biometric input for casual operation.
- agumonkey 9y agoWhat about unlocking without looking at it ?
- robotresearcher 9y agogone away.
- c0ndu17 9y agoI'm guessing you can tap on the padlock to enter your passcode.
- agumonkey 9y agothat requires paying attention (and probably looking at it, even if you know the location, a screen is too flat), unlike the home button.
- rmrfrmrf 9y agoTouchID always takes a "slightly-perceptible" amount of time to work, so any improvement over that would be fine with me.
- PeppermintGrade 9y agoEspecially if you have several banking or investment related apps that use touch-id.
- Joeri 9y agoThat's probably why they make you swipe up. The gesture takes 500 ms at least, and it only has to unlock by the end of it.
- paul7986 9y agoIndeed especially when driving that millions of us shouldn't be doing but do anyway. Touch ID made it so easy to unlock ... can't imagine Face ID being a better in this scenario.
- usaphp 9y agoBut the reason you unlock it is to look at the information on your phone, so it's not like you are using touch id without looking at your phone after that, no?
- grego 9y agoI keep "loaning" my finger to family members all the time, when I'm driving, watching TV, and they want to borrow my phone. Not really sure Apple thought through this from every angle...
- MBCook 9y agoThey could just hold the phone up and you could look over for a fraction of a second. No different than if you were talking to them.
- cbhl 9y agoOh boy, that's going to be awful fun for parents. Let the kid play with a game; they call your name while pointing the forward camera at you and you've just Face ID'ed some in-app purchase.
- usaphp 9y agoBut then you have to adjust your grip, at least for me when I unlock my iphone I am using a different grip then when I try to click an icon on a homescreen, so if I would use face ID - it will save me some time for adjusting grip, at least that's what I imagine, of course nobody have tries face ID yet.
- chris_7 9y agoSo what I'm talking about is: I place my thumb on the home button and three fingers on the back of the phone, while grabbing it in my pocket. The fingers are initially pointed down, in the same direction of the phone. As I drag it out of my pocket, I click the home button and flip the phone around, so now my fingers are horizontal across the phone (standard phone-holding position basically). It's almost always unlocked by the time I can see anything on the screen. This requires you to always orient the screen "inwards" (towards your leg).
- camone 9y agoI don't understand why having the fingerprint sensor in the back of the phone (Nexus, Pixel and some other android devices) never took off that much. Ever since I got it on my Nexus 5x I absolutely loved it (Pixel now, same thing). It's incredibly intuitive, works both right and left handed, doesn't take up screen space, and they've just added a "scrolling" feature to open your notifications by swiping it. Seems like a no-brainer, I can't see any fault in it, and yet very few phones have it.
- WillKirkby 9y agoFor people using Apple Pay on the Oyster network in London, the speed of face recognition is absolutely gonna make or break this.
- selectodude 9y agoJust auth before you get to the turnstile.
- empath75 9y agoyou have to auth again when you use apple pay.
- AckSyn 9y agoThat's what is meant. You can auth with Apple Pay before you need to for up to a minute (maybe two?) and save yourself the time. It's the equivalent of having your cc out of your wallet and in your hand before you need it.
- jon889 9y agoNo you can pre auth. If you authing at the gate, then youre extremely annoying..
- andrewingram 9y agoIt's part of why I think it should be considered a breach of social etiquette to use your phone to pay on public transport.
- test1235 9y agoLike the people who wait till they're at the gate before delving into their bottomless-bag-of-carrying for their oyster
- LeoPanthera 9y agoThis is incorrect. You can preauth even with the current touch id models.
- jghn 9y agoI can barely get the damn thing to work reliably when I'm watching carefully where my thumb goes. I salute you.
- ashark 9y agoYeah, TouchID only gets me in like 50% of the time, usually with 2-3 attempts. And yes, I've re-done the prints a couple times. All these people posting about consistently unlocking it without looking seem like they're from a different universe.
- rjeli 9y agoThe 7 touchid is much, much better than previous versions. Near instant
- jghn 9y agoIt's better, but it still sucks for me. My 6 worked so infrequently that i stopped bothering. At least with my 7 it works about half the time on the first attempt or two. I've put my prints in many times, I've even recorded my thumb from all sorts of angles as multiple fingers. Still no joy.
- Tempest1981 9y agoI know people with very dry hands who have this problem. Maybe due to cracked skin? Wet hands also cause problems, but wet beyond sweaty.
- djf1 9y agoBlisters are another deal breaker. As a new golfer I've been feeling this. I imagine people who work with their hands all day (e.g. construction) may have a similar issue.
- javabean22 9y agoFor me this happens ONLY when my fingers are wet or oily. Otherwise it works 100% of the time.
- aecorredor 9y agoOk, the guy demoing the iPhone X just had to switch to the backup phone because the Face ID on the first one didn't work quite smoothly.
- empath75 9y agoactually, the phone had been rebooted, so he needed to unlock with a pin to activate it.
- aecorredor 9y agoStill, at least I didn't notice, and probably the average user didn't either, which makes it just look as a major blooper. I loved the phone though.
- mcondit 9y agoat least he knew the password and wasn't relying on the face recog to get into the phone, that could have been rough
- wlesieutre 9y agoIIRC he didn't use the passcode, they switched over to a backup phone. For presentations like these you always have multiple devices standing by, ready to flip over to at a moment's notice.
- 9y ago
- tomcart 9y agoIf this slows people down going through barriers on the tube there will be barely (but just) contained rage across London
- chris_7 9y agoI wonder if it works with scarves and hats covering everything but your eyes. It seems like an obvious oversight, but it's a Californian company that launched a maps app without any transit support...
- lando2319 9y agotheir website shows people with cold weather gear https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/
- chris_7 9y agoA scarf that's barely covering the bottom of the guy's face? They don't know true winter. (or, like, Muslims)
- foldr 9y agoIt's a tiny minority of Muslim women who cover their faces, just for the record. (I assume a head scarf wouldn't interfere.)
- bobthedino 9y agoI'm curious: can you suggest a source for this statistic?
- foldr 9y agoIt's really not a controversial point. I don't know how one would get precise statistics on it, but see e.g. the Wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niqāb https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niqāb
- gshakir 9y agoPeople can be having a 'bad face day' if the Face ID doesn't work fast enough.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoMore and more, these devices are getting less usable by non-human beings. First the Touch ID and now Face ID... So much speciesism.
- mort96 9y agoI mean, I know you're joking, but it's not really the case. Before Touch ID, you had to either leave your phone always unlocked, or have a pass code/word. Those options are still available, there's just two additional ways now with Touch/Face ID, so they haven't gotten less usable for non-humans, just more usable for humans.
- Osmium 9y ago> Feels like a straight downgrade in usability. You know, it really depends how fast it is. You need attentiveness to use your phone, so requiring attentiveness to unlock it doesn't seem unreasonable, provided it happens in less time than it takes to move your thumb to the glass.
- jasonlotito 9y ago> You need attentiveness to use your phone No, this is not true. I can log in and activate functions of my phone right now without looking at it. If I have to look at my phone, there is a problem. If the phone merely needs to see my face, maybe it's less of one. The iPhone is already slow enough I find myself waiting on it, I don't want it to be any slower.
- jdc0589 9y agoIm on a Nexus 5x, but I do the same thing, and had the same thought when I saw this in the keynote. I have my phone unlocked before I'm looking at it probably ~80% of the time.
- xster 9y agoHow do you know the guy didn't just shave his beard? :)
- calsy 9y agoYet if your fingers have any moisture on them it fails to work. Nothings perfect.
- veidr 9y agoI'm concerned that Face ID will suck more than Touch ID, too. I do the pocket-unlock you describe often. At the same time, Touch ID has its own limitations. For instance, it doesn't work if you try to unlock after recently holding a cold beer (or have even slightly damp hands for any other reason).
- intoverflow2 9y agoWhy add Touch ID to the laptop range which already had cameras when you're going to remove it from your next phone. Could have just made the laptop camera up to scratch for this like Surface books are. I feel we're being sold a compromise and until they failed to get a Touch ID sensor below that screen this was plan B.
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoIt's not just a camera trick. They have additional sensors to make this work.
- intoverflow2 9y agoMy comment obviously implied adding the sensors to make it work, Surface Laptops use IR as well as far as I know... My point is more that why make a big deal about shipping dead tech to the laptop if this truly is what they consider the future and a better system.
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoMy guess is Apple isn't worried about being consistent. They will provide the best solution according to the tech available at the time and the other constraints of the product.
- jads 9y agoYou should look at the specs and how FaceID works. It's so much more than just a camera. The iPhone X is currently the only device to support face detection. All other iPads, iPhones, and MacBook Pro range use TouchID. It was years before it was ever added to the Mac, it'll likely be years before FaceID arrives as well.
- MicroBerto 9y agoYeah but this face thing will work fantastically while you are in handcuffs and the cop holds it up to you.
- eosophos 9y agoIf you're already in handcuffs, can't they just as easily get your fingerprint?
- jads 9y agoFaceID won't work if you're not looking directly at it. They can't force your eyes to look at it.
- philjohn 9y agoUnless you close your eyes, or have remembered to hit the power button five times before they get the phone off you.
- Pigo 9y agoI remember when I first had this feature available on my android phone, like 2 or 3 phones ago, and quickly turned it off. Fingerprint FTW