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Face ID. I'd swear this was satire if I wasn't watching it with my own eyes.
by bspn 9y ago
Face ID. I'd swear this was satire if I wasn't watching it with my own eyes.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoCCC hack of face id arriving in 5..4..3...
- sloreti 9y agoFace data is never sent to server, stored on device.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoTrue, but your face data is also saved on any photo anybody might have of you. It's not that hard to generate a 3d model from that.
- theshrike79 9y ago"not that hard" to whom? A state operator doing a targeted attack, most likely not. Local police? No fucking way. Random phone thief? Don't make me laugh. And people seem to actively "forget" that this is a learning model, getting better with every unlock. Just like TouchID, but better.
- saagarjha 9y agoThey talked about how masks can't fool it, so I'd expect that a 3D model won't either.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoThey (ok, a different they) also said that the iris scan can not be fooled, and how long did that last?
- jojoo 9y agothe hack will be to unlock the i-phone with a photo or some probe. i'd guess starbuck will need less than 5 days.
- UncleMeat 9y agoOf course it's easy. But it's a severe threat model. Targeted physical attacks aren't really on the list of concerns for most people. And if you are worried about it, you shouldn't be using touch or voice unlock either.
- smogcutter 9y agoTargeted physical attacks are a bigger concern than people often assume - think abusive relationships. It sounds like this in some ways is a step forward from touch id in that regard, but we'll have to see.
- gdilla 9y agoPresumable the IR sensor will know that your photo or replica is not body temperature. That said, maybe heating up your fake with a hair dryer will work?
- davrosthedalek 9y agoWhy the downvote? All of these system have been proved easy to trick. Do you really think depth perception is a real hurdle? 3d printers do exist. It is based on IR detection of projected points, so you might even be able to fake it with a specially prepared photo (for example with holes for the ir points) and an ir source behind it.
- craigyk 9y agoYou could be right, but it seems to me there is a lot of data going into that thing, if it is designed to not just check the data for matches, but also self-consistency across inputs it could be a pretty high bar... I imagine it does depth, IR temp checking (nose colder than face, etc.), image, and maybe even a couple ms of time monitoring to make sure the face is pliable and maybe even has realistic deformability.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoI didn't hear the live stream audio. Did they announce anything in that direction?
- craigyk 9y agoJust a guess from the types of sensors and the custom ASIC that was designed to integrate them... at 600 billion operations per second it certainly seems like it would be capable of real-time integration and validation of all those things.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoI wonder if the ir camera could be used for other purposes. If it can actually read the temperature, that's a neat trick. Probably can't though (see prices of flir lepton), I'd guess it is a b/w camera sensitive in the 700-800 nm range. But still, with the dot projector, and that kind of processing power, they should be able to detect 3d gestures, similar to leap motion.
- 9y ago
- jasonmaydie 9y agoWindows says hello. I imagine in an non-fixed setting like an mobile phone, trying to peek at your phone while not drawing attention to it (meeting or otherwise) will probably be somewhat of a challenge
- raesene9 9y agoWindows Hello is pretty good for fixed or semi-fixed devices (e.g. Surfaces, Laptops, desktops) but really not great for mobile. Hats/sunglasses/rain/lighting all cause problems for mobile devices and face recognition. It'll be interesting to see if/how Apple overcome those problems
- component 9y agoThey worked with Hollywood mask makers. On the keynote they said it still knows you if you're wearing a scarf, sunglasses, grow a beard... Touch ID: 1:50,000 Face ID: 1:1,000,000
- raesene9 9y agoWell everyone will need to wait for real-world tests to be sure, but I'd be quite surprised if they've got it good enough to work when someone is wearing a hat and sunglasses and yet still be secure enough to have a very low false-positive rate.
- saynay 9y agoThey generate a depth-map of the face with a pattern projector and IR-camera. Facial bone structure will be unaffected by superficial changes. I suspect things that obscure large portions of the face, like large glasses or a sudden thick beard will give it some difficulties.
- gizmo385 9y agoThat's what the marketing material says. I'd like to wait for some real world tests to determine if this works anywhere near as well as they say it does. My intuition says not, but I'd like to be surprised.
- thsowers 9y agoA little surprising given all of their previous talk about "Leading innovation in security" to pick a technology that is inherently insecure
- thsowers 9y agoUnsure about the downvotes, do you really buy Apples 1 in a million numbers here? Really? This tech has proven to be unreliable before and is nothing more than security theater and for a minor convenience
- MBCook 9y agoProven how? You mean when people like Samsung or HP just do a very simple photo match where you can hold up a literal picture and it gets recognized? Apple is using 3-D scan data as well as infrared reflectivity and for all we know temperature sensing. You can't compare the two. Did you have something that's a closer comparison?
- artursapek 9y ago"Face data"
- oculusthrift 9y agowhat if it is dark? this guy even had issues just using it on stage
- Shikadi 9y agoIt probably uses an IR light source to illuminate your face invisibly. Trouble on stage may have been from stage lighting drowning out the IR, though that parts just speculation. I didn't watch
- theshrike79 9y agoIt definitely uses IR, they said so. The failed attempt was caused by a rebooted phone, it wanted the passcode even before it saw his face.
- Shikadi 9y agoRight, but I was saying it probably uses an IR _source_ to illuminate your face in the dark. Then again, humans probably just emit enough IR without it.
- function_seven 9y agoIt uses an infrared camera, dot projector, and floodlight. It doesn’t appear to rely on ambient lighting. But the guy did have issues on stage...
- astrodust 9y agoPre-production phone. Beta software. Mistakes happen.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- saagarjha 9y agoThe issues were because the phone had just been restarted, which disables Face ID.