4 ms·

It's not only what you pay directly, it affects virtually all prices. Let's take a bread for example: most modern bakeries use electric ovens, and as far as I k

by kbart 9y ago

It's not only what you pay directly, it affects virtually all prices. Let's take a bread for example: most modern bakeries use electric ovens, and as far as I know, it's one of the biggest part of total running cost. Moving that bread to the malls using electric trucks? Add % to that too. Mall also uses electricity to power HVAC, lighting, refrigerators etc. See how that % increase of electricity prices adds up in every step and might lead to much higher increase in a final price?

sitkack 9y ago
Have you witnessed the price of food in Europe? It is basically free compared to the US.
rando444 9y ago
Your argument is solid, as long as you completely ignore the constant falling prices of wind, solar, and other renewable energy generation.
- kbart 9y ago
  Wind turbines, solar panels, dams don't come for free and their capital cost ends up in consumers' bills anyway. Sure, on the long run we might achieve cheap or even free energy, but current tendency is rising of electricity prices in many regions, despite wider use of renewables, due to demand increasing even faster.
  - rando444 9y ago
    Obviously the infrastructure is not free, but the prices are falling. Scotland's government just made a deal to pay two windfarms £57.50 per megawatt hour (MWh), 40% less than they were paying even the previous year. [0] Prices will continue to fall even further by the time your hypothetical bakery switches to electric vehicles. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/11/huge-boost-renewable-power-offshore-windfarm-costs-fall-record-low https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/11/huge-boo...
  - Angostura 9y ago
    https://www.ft.com/content/77563334-9484-11e7-a9e6-11d2f0ebb7f0 https://www.ft.com/content/77563334-9484-11e7-a9e6-11d2f0ebb... "UK offshore wind power subsidy set to undercut nuclear"
adrianN 9y ago
That's a good argument. But how come that bread is not much more expensive in Germany compared to, say France, where electricity is much cheaper? I used to live very close to the French border and occasionally got my baguettes from there.
- kbart 9y ago
  "But how come that bread is not much more expensive in Germany compared to, say France, where electricity is much cheaper?" Because it's not the only factor. Many other factors might balance the price: labor cost, taxes, logistics etc. If electricity prices are as in France, maybe you would get even cheaper bread locally? I'm not trying to say that increase of prices would be dramatic, just wanted to point out that what you pay directly is not the end of it.

by kbart 9y ago

sitkack 9y ago

Have you witnessed the price of food in Europe? It is basically free compared to the US.

rando444 9y ago

Your argument is solid, as long as you completely ignore the constant falling prices of wind, solar, and other renewable energy generation.

kbart 9y ago
Wind turbines, solar panels, dams don't come for free and their capital cost ends up in consumers' bills anyway. Sure, on the long run we might achieve cheap or even free energy, but current tendency is rising of electricity prices in many regions, despite wider use of renewables, due to demand increasing even faster.
- rando444 9y ago
  Obviously the infrastructure is not free, but the prices are falling. Scotland's government just made a deal to pay two windfarms £57.50 per megawatt hour (MWh), 40% less than they were paying even the previous year. [0] Prices will continue to fall even further by the time your hypothetical bakery switches to electric vehicles. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/11/huge-boost-renewable-power-offshore-windfarm-costs-fall-record-low https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/11/huge-boo...
- Angostura 9y ago
  https://www.ft.com/content/77563334-9484-11e7-a9e6-11d2f0ebb7f0 https://www.ft.com/content/77563334-9484-11e7-a9e6-11d2f0ebb... "UK offshore wind power subsidy set to undercut nuclear"

adrianN 9y ago

That's a good argument. But how come that bread is not much more expensive in Germany compared to, say France, where electricity is much cheaper? I used to live very close to the French border and occasionally got my baguettes from there.

kbart 9y ago
"But how come that bread is not much more expensive in Germany compared to, say France, where electricity is much cheaper?" Because it's not the only factor. Many other factors might balance the price: labor cost, taxes, logistics etc. If electricity prices are as in France, maybe you would get even cheaper bread locally? I'm not trying to say that increase of prices would be dramatic, just wanted to point out that what you pay directly is not the end of it.