7 ms·

This really depends on what the app is. A few of my friends use apps to look up when the next bus is coming. I use the official website. There's zero need for t

This really depends on what the app is. A few of my friends use apps to look up when the next bus is coming. I use the official website. There's zero need for their apps to be available offline, they only thing they're for is looking up the next bus, which requires an internet connection. The app in this case gives absolutely no advantage to the website. I find that's the case for a lot of phone apps

mbrock 9y ago
Offline time tables are more than zero useful!
- bpicolo 9y ago
  This is a complaint of their example rather than the concept, though.
CamelCaseName 9y ago
I feel like such an app could download the bus schedule and do this all offline (and let the user know it is simply an estimate) In fact, I really wish Google Maps did this, but I guess the damage of getting it wrong once is far greater than getting it right 100 times. Phones are pretty powerful with huge storage. If you can compute directions offline, why not buses? Saving a map or route is tiny compared to the 64, 128, or 256 GB storage on most people's devices, surely bus schedules can't be that big.
- scaryclam 9y ago
  I think you may misunderstand. The bus company provides live information. This is not a schedule, so cannot be downloaded ahead of time.
  - kevmo314 9y ago
    What if I just want the schedule though? It's not unusual that I'm underground (perhaps getting off a subway train) and don't have connection.
    - dumbmatter 9y ago
      Some buses don't have schedules, just an estimated frequency. Or some have schedules but don't stick to them with any reliability.
      - kevmo314 9y ago
        Not providing schedules because some buses don't have them seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
        true_religion 9y ago
        The bus schedule is available on the bus company website. The only thing that app gives over that is what the schedule is now.
        boondaburrah 9y ago
        You clearly haven't ridden the buses in Boston.
    - mbrameld 9y ago
      Then download the schedule from the web site?
      - kevmo314 9y ago
        So... like a PWA?
    - boondaburrah 9y ago
      There should be paper schedules available in the station.
    - _Tev 9y ago
      The online search takes into account all short term schedule modifications. Considering how many such changes occur on almost daily basis, you would be quickly complaining about data usage from all those schedule updates. Or you would frequently get wrong route. Either way, a lot of complexity / resources spent on something trivially solved by the original solution (webpage).
  - drewda 9y ago
    Many public transit agencies provide both static and real-time data. - static data often is sharing using the "GTFS" specification, which includes stop locations, route geometries, scheduled trips, etc. See http://gtfs.org/ http://gtfs.org/ - real-time data is shared using a variety of specifications, and typically includes vehicle locations, service alerts, and other notifications from the agency The static kind of data can certainly be cached for local use. Try browsing and downloading some from the Transitland open transit data platform and its API: https://transit.land https://transit.land
- troelsSteegin 9y ago
  the app is in leveraging the rider's actual experience ... each time the rider rides the bus, she records the time of arrival - eg takes a photo of the bus - and builds a record of actual arrival times. the app makes predictions about when the bus will come.
e12e 9y ago
> look up when the next bus is coming That's ridiculous argument against offline use - bus schedules are small enough data that we print them out and carry them in our pockets. Sure, if the bus company socks, it might be nice to know about changes due to roadwork, real-time updates (ie look up the next bus via it's gps location and speed) - but doing off-line route planning would be a great feature...
- conroy 9y ago
  It sounds like you're not a daily bus rider. The printed bus schedules are useless due to delays. I take transit into work everyday and you need to know when the next bus is coming or you risk waiting at a station for twenty minutes.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - problems 9y ago
    Yeah, they're majorly helpful for transit commuters - you can avoid extended wait times, know when you can take a walk to the convenience store or even know when there's another or a bigger bus coming so you can decide whether it's worth getting on the packed bus or waiting for the next one. It really does change the transit game a lot.
- msla 9y ago
  In Missoula, Montana, where I live, the Mountain Line app shows you where every individual bus on a given route is, and computes ETA to a selected bus stop. I'm pretty sure that's common functionality. (To be honest, the Mountain Line is very punctual, so I could likely do just fine with just a printed schedule.)
  - e12e 9y ago
    Where I currently live, the bus app does the same, but the difference between scheduled time at each individual stop is typically 1-3 minutes. So it's not like off-line functionality would be useless, even if on-line can add value. But it obviously only adds value when you're on-line - and if off-line the app doesn't work at all...
dfabulich 9y ago
Even for this use case, an app (including offline-enabled PWA) should load faster than an online-only website if they're designed properly, because the app UI is pre-cached and it's just making a small JSON web request for the next bus.
aeorgnoieang 9y ago
Nah, you're wrong! [You're not totally wrong, tho you wrote in really broad absolutes.] Even your example would be a much better app with offline support. The app shouldn't stop working just because of a hiccup in the user's internet connectivity. If I, the user, switch from the when-is-the-next-bus-coming app to another app and then switch back (within, say, a few minutes), it'd be really great if the app could default to showing me info based on the data it just downloaded instead of automatically resetting the UI and waiting to update it until it downloads the data again.

mbrock 9y ago

Offline time tables are more than zero useful!

bpicolo 9y ago
This is a complaint of their example rather than the concept, though.

CamelCaseName 9y ago

I feel like such an app could download the bus schedule and do this all offline (and let the user know it is simply an estimate) In fact, I really wish Google Maps did this, but I guess the damage of getting it wrong once is far greater than getting it right 100 times. Phones are pretty powerful with huge storage. If you can compute directions offline, why not buses? Saving a map or route is tiny compared to the 64, 128, or 256 GB storage on most people's devices, surely bus schedules can't be that big.

scaryclam 9y ago
I think you may misunderstand. The bus company provides live information. This is not a schedule, so cannot be downloaded ahead of time.
- kevmo314 9y ago
  What if I just want the schedule though? It's not unusual that I'm underground (perhaps getting off a subway train) and don't have connection.
  - dumbmatter 9y ago
    Some buses don't have schedules, just an estimated frequency. Or some have schedules but don't stick to them with any reliability.
    - kevmo314 9y ago
      Not providing schedules because some buses don't have them seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
      - true_religion 9y ago
        The bus schedule is available on the bus company website. The only thing that app gives over that is what the schedule is now.
      - boondaburrah 9y ago
        You clearly haven't ridden the buses in Boston.
  - mbrameld 9y ago
    Then download the schedule from the web site?
    - kevmo314 9y ago
      So... like a PWA?
  - boondaburrah 9y ago
    There should be paper schedules available in the station.
  - _Tev 9y ago
    The online search takes into account all short term schedule modifications. Considering how many such changes occur on almost daily basis, you would be quickly complaining about data usage from all those schedule updates. Or you would frequently get wrong route. Either way, a lot of complexity / resources spent on something trivially solved by the original solution (webpage).
- drewda 9y ago
  Many public transit agencies provide both static and real-time data. - static data often is sharing using the "GTFS" specification, which includes stop locations, route geometries, scheduled trips, etc. See http://gtfs.org/ http://gtfs.org/ - real-time data is shared using a variety of specifications, and typically includes vehicle locations, service alerts, and other notifications from the agency The static kind of data can certainly be cached for local use. Try browsing and downloading some from the Transitland open transit data platform and its API: https://transit.land https://transit.land
troelsSteegin 9y ago
the app is in leveraging the rider's actual experience ... each time the rider rides the bus, she records the time of arrival - eg takes a photo of the bus - and builds a record of actual arrival times. the app makes predictions about when the bus will come.

e12e 9y ago

> look up when the next bus is coming That's ridiculous argument against offline use - bus schedules are small enough data that we print them out and carry them in our pockets. Sure, if the bus company socks, it might be nice to know about changes due to roadwork, real-time updates (ie look up the next bus via it's gps location and speed) - but doing off-line route planning would be a great feature...

conroy 9y ago
It sounds like you're not a daily bus rider. The printed bus schedules are useless due to delays. I take transit into work everyday and you need to know when the next bus is coming or you risk waiting at a station for twenty minutes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- problems 9y ago
  Yeah, they're majorly helpful for transit commuters - you can avoid extended wait times, know when you can take a walk to the convenience store or even know when there's another or a bigger bus coming so you can decide whether it's worth getting on the packed bus or waiting for the next one. It really does change the transit game a lot.
msla 9y ago
In Missoula, Montana, where I live, the Mountain Line app shows you where every individual bus on a given route is, and computes ETA to a selected bus stop. I'm pretty sure that's common functionality. (To be honest, the Mountain Line is very punctual, so I could likely do just fine with just a printed schedule.)
- e12e 9y ago
  Where I currently live, the bus app does the same, but the difference between scheduled time at each individual stop is typically 1-3 minutes. So it's not like off-line functionality would be useless, even if on-line can add value. But it obviously only adds value when you're on-line - and if off-line the app doesn't work at all...

dfabulich 9y ago

Even for this use case, an app (including offline-enabled PWA) should load faster than an online-only website if they're designed properly, because the app UI is pre-cached and it's just making a small JSON web request for the next bus.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago

Nah, you're wrong! [You're not totally wrong, tho you wrote in really broad absolutes.] Even your example would be a much better app with offline support. The app shouldn't stop working just because of a hiccup in the user's internet connectivity. If I, the user, switch from the when-is-the-next-bus-coming app to another app and then switch back (within, say, a few minutes), it'd be really great if the app could default to showing me info based on the data it just downloaded instead of automatically resetting the UI and waiting to update it until it downloads the data again.