9 ms·

So it sounds like PWAs now make this true: > You don't have to create a native app because PWAs now offer all the functionality of a native app. That's cool.

by jawns 9y ago

So it sounds like PWAs now make this true: > You don't have to create a native app because PWAs now offer all the functionality of a native app. That's cool. But _this_ has been true for a while: > You don't have to create a native app because a mobile-friendly website offers all the functionality you need. I use (reluctantly) a bunch of apps that really should be just websites. They don't make use of my phone's camera or microphone or do anything fancy to my phone's user experience. They don't need any special permissions, aside from web access. They're really just websites in disguise. And yet, for some reason, they're apps. Some were even built as websites (e.g. using PhoneGap) and then compiled into native apps. So before we convince people that PWAs are the answer for all of their fancy, highly integrated apps that previously could only be achieved as native apps, I think it's going to be an uphill battle just to convince them that in many cases, you don't even need an app. You just need a mobile website.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago
Being able to use the 'app' offline is a pretty important feature tho. I almost always have web access, but most apps also almost never need it (for me to do what I want to do).
- Xeoncross 9y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but PWA's support 'offline mode'. React's official tool, `create-react-app` comes with this boilerplate enabled by default.
- scaryclam 9y ago
  This really depends on what the app is. A few of my friends use apps to look up when the next bus is coming. I use the official website. There's zero need for their apps to be available offline, they only thing they're for is looking up the next bus, which requires an internet connection. The app in this case gives absolutely no advantage to the website. I find that's the case for a lot of phone apps
  - mbrock 9y ago
    Offline time tables are more than zero useful!
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      This is a complaint of their example rather than the concept, though.
  - CamelCaseName 9y ago
    I feel like such an app could download the bus schedule and do this all offline (and let the user know it is simply an estimate) In fact, I really wish Google Maps did this, but I guess the damage of getting it wrong once is far greater than getting it right 100 times. Phones are pretty powerful with huge storage. If you can compute directions offline, why not buses? Saving a map or route is tiny compared to the 64, 128, or 256 GB storage on most people's devices, surely bus schedules can't be that big.
    - scaryclam 9y ago
      I think you may misunderstand. The bus company provides live information. This is not a schedule, so cannot be downloaded ahead of time.
      - kevmo314 9y ago
        What if I just want the schedule though? It's not unusual that I'm underground (perhaps getting off a subway train) and don't have connection.
        dumbmatter 9y ago
        Some buses don't have schedules, just an estimated frequency. Or some have schedules but don't stick to them with any reliability.
        9y ago
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- tootie 9y ago
  PWAs can do offline.
criddell 9y ago
The author also points out (correctly) that web apps are smaller than their equivalent native app. That's nice, but I'm not terribly constrained as far as storage goes on my phone. I am constrained by battery life and data consumption.
- maxsilver 9y ago
  > The author also points out (correctly) that web apps are smaller than their equivalent native app. Well, the author straw-mans that web apps are smaller. Yes, web apps are lighter than equivalent native apps. But not to anywhere near the degree described in the article. There's no legitimate reason for the Starbucks app to be 100MB. None. A native Android app equivalent to the PWA in the article would come in at about about 2MB, for instance. Starbucks app is huge because they stuffed it with something (same for Twitter, Facebook, etc). Starbucks new PWA is clean and light because it hasn't (yet) been stuffed with the equivalent junk. It's not a technology difference, it's a political/corporate one.
  - Brakenshire 9y ago
    Google will punish badly made web apps though, whereas the same apparently doesn't apply to native apps.
  - WoodenChair 9y ago
    Even worse every time you go to Starbucks.com you might re-download all of the junk. If you use it multiple times a day, that's a lot of wasted bandwidth compared to a slim (unusual in these days) native app.
    - ben336 9y ago
      The value of PWAs with service worker support is that redownloads don't happen. That's also how they can have offline support (on Android at least, safari currently has a lest robust caching story)
HillaryBriss 9y ago
> I think it's going to be an uphill battle just to convince them that in many cases, you don't even need an app. You just need a mobile website. but, isn't it a lot less expensive to build and maintain a mobile website than to build apps for both iOS and android? wouldn't that win the argument in a lot of cases?
k__ 9y ago
Isn't the reason for stuff like NativeScript and React-Native that stuff like PWAs and PhoneGap weren't good enough?
- ionwake 9y ago
  Can someone with experience answer this please?
  - k__ 9y ago
    I give you a hint: Yes
    - ionwake 9y ago
      Are PWAs and phone gap good enough now?
jimktrains2 9y ago
> > You don't have to create a native app because PWAs now offer all the functionality of a native app. I didn't think you could do arbitrary network or disk I/O. The sandbox is really, really nice for many applications, but PWAs aren't suitable for all native applications.
- honestlyreally 9y ago
  My thoughts exactly, wondering why so many here are saying they are equivalent? PWA disk usage has tiny limits. For the curious: https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-offline/web-storage/offline-for-pwa https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-o...
rixed 9y ago
I've always naively assumed that apps were given preference because they are better at gathering info about the user (can get location more easily for instance, can phone home whenever...) and better at displaying ads (no Adblock there), and therefore I'm surprised nobody evokes this. Don't you think it's at least partly true?
- robterrin 9y ago
  Surprised I didn't find this comment up higher. This is my first thought every time. Good observation!
ge96 9y ago
What about sensors/stuff on the hardware that the browser may not be able to access? Edit: I have seen some browser demos that could show your phone's orientation. In the past the camera trigger was not reliable that was in 2013-2014 if I recall dang time flies.

by jawns 9y ago

aeorgnoieang 9y ago

Being able to use the 'app' offline is a pretty important feature tho. I almost always have web access, but most apps also almost never need it (for me to do what I want to do).

Xeoncross 9y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but PWA's support 'offline mode'. React's official tool, `create-react-app` comes with this boilerplate enabled by default.
scaryclam 9y ago
This really depends on what the app is. A few of my friends use apps to look up when the next bus is coming. I use the official website. There's zero need for their apps to be available offline, they only thing they're for is looking up the next bus, which requires an internet connection. The app in this case gives absolutely no advantage to the website. I find that's the case for a lot of phone apps
- mbrock 9y ago
  Offline time tables are more than zero useful!
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    This is a complaint of their example rather than the concept, though.
- CamelCaseName 9y ago
  I feel like such an app could download the bus schedule and do this all offline (and let the user know it is simply an estimate) In fact, I really wish Google Maps did this, but I guess the damage of getting it wrong once is far greater than getting it right 100 times. Phones are pretty powerful with huge storage. If you can compute directions offline, why not buses? Saving a map or route is tiny compared to the 64, 128, or 256 GB storage on most people's devices, surely bus schedules can't be that big.
  - scaryclam 9y ago
    I think you may misunderstand. The bus company provides live information. This is not a schedule, so cannot be downloaded ahead of time.
    - kevmo314 9y ago
      What if I just want the schedule though? It's not unusual that I'm underground (perhaps getting off a subway train) and don't have connection.
      - dumbmatter 9y ago
        Some buses don't have schedules, just an estimated frequency. Or some have schedules but don't stick to them with any reliability.
        9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tootie 9y ago
PWAs can do offline.

criddell 9y ago

The author also points out (correctly) that web apps are smaller than their equivalent native app. That's nice, but I'm not terribly constrained as far as storage goes on my phone. I am constrained by battery life and data consumption.

maxsilver 9y ago
> The author also points out (correctly) that web apps are smaller than their equivalent native app. Well, the author straw-mans that web apps are smaller. Yes, web apps are lighter than equivalent native apps. But not to anywhere near the degree described in the article. There's no legitimate reason for the Starbucks app to be 100MB. None. A native Android app equivalent to the PWA in the article would come in at about about 2MB, for instance. Starbucks app is huge because they stuffed it with something (same for Twitter, Facebook, etc). Starbucks new PWA is clean and light because it hasn't (yet) been stuffed with the equivalent junk. It's not a technology difference, it's a political/corporate one.
- Brakenshire 9y ago
  Google will punish badly made web apps though, whereas the same apparently doesn't apply to native apps.
- WoodenChair 9y ago
  Even worse every time you go to Starbucks.com you might re-download all of the junk. If you use it multiple times a day, that's a lot of wasted bandwidth compared to a slim (unusual in these days) native app.
  - ben336 9y ago
    The value of PWAs with service worker support is that redownloads don't happen. That's also how they can have offline support (on Android at least, safari currently has a lest robust caching story)

HillaryBriss 9y ago

> I think it's going to be an uphill battle just to convince them that in many cases, you don't even need an app. You just need a mobile website. but, isn't it a lot less expensive to build and maintain a mobile website than to build apps for both iOS and android? wouldn't that win the argument in a lot of cases?

k__ 9y ago

Isn't the reason for stuff like NativeScript and React-Native that stuff like PWAs and PhoneGap weren't good enough?

ionwake 9y ago
Can someone with experience answer this please?
- k__ 9y ago
  I give you a hint: Yes
  - ionwake 9y ago
    Are PWAs and phone gap good enough now?

jimktrains2 9y ago

> > You don't have to create a native app because PWAs now offer all the functionality of a native app. I didn't think you could do arbitrary network or disk I/O. The sandbox is really, really nice for many applications, but PWAs aren't suitable for all native applications.

honestlyreally 9y ago
My thoughts exactly, wondering why so many here are saying they are equivalent? PWA disk usage has tiny limits. For the curious: https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-offline/web-storage/offline-for-pwa https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-o...

rixed 9y ago

I've always naively assumed that apps were given preference because they are better at gathering info about the user (can get location more easily for instance, can phone home whenever...) and better at displaying ads (no Adblock there), and therefore I'm surprised nobody evokes this. Don't you think it's at least partly true?

robterrin 9y ago
Surprised I didn't find this comment up higher. This is my first thought every time. Good observation!

ge96 9y ago

What about sensors/stuff on the hardware that the browser may not be able to access? Edit: I have seen some browser demos that could show your phone's orientation. In the past the camera trigger was not reliable that was in 2013-2014 if I recall dang time flies.