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Coming from another country I really have difficulties understanding why e.g., utilities would want to have your SSN. What do they get that they otherwise won’t

Coming from another country I really have difficulties understanding why e.g., utilities would want to have your SSN. What do they get that they otherwise won’t get? Isn’t a validated address and a credit card number enough for them? What is the scenario that they try to protect against? That someone misses his 30 USD utility payment and has a CC that is not covered? That seems like a rather weak argument

takeda 9y ago
These databases are there essentially to punish you. If you don't pay your utility bill, they report that to the credit agency, and reduces your chances of getting credit elsewhere. These credit information don't give much benefit to Americans, it gives benefits to businesses[1]. It's essentially just a global black list where business can communicate who not to do business with. This business is there for other businesses and we are the product there. This is why people generally have very shitty experience when they have to interact with them, and this is why Equifax thinks the problem is solved when they provide free one year credit monitoring service. [1] note how Equifax thought it was important notice that the core database - the one storing your credit records was not affected. None of Americans care about this, but if the core database storing record was compromised Equifax would disappear overnight without any help of the government, because none of the businesses would want to use it.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > These [sic] credit information don't give much benefit to Americans, it gives benefits to businesses Americans own, work at and consume the products of businesses. If there is a class American law generally holds above investors, in terms of protection, it's consumers. I would also argue consumers benefit from our credit rating agency system, shitty as it is--it allows more people to get cheaper credit faster and more easily than if we had to establish trust at every commercial interaction.
  - njarboe 9y ago
    I would suggest that getting credit faster and more easily is not a benefit for consumers but a benefit to business also.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > I would suggest that getting credit faster and more easily is not a benefit for consumers but a benefit to business also Access to credit reduces poverty, internationally [1] and domestically [2]. It is also critical to letting poor and middle class individuals start small businesses [3]. Consumers and businesses benefit from financial systems that efficiently allocate credit. That's why both consumers and businesses voluntarily finance purchases with credit. (This is not a Panglossian claim that our system is perfect. Credit is better than no credit for consumers. Our current CRA system, while a complete mess, is still probably better than forcing trust to be re-ascertained at every commercial interaction.) [1] https://www.microfinancegateway.org/sites/default/files/mfg-en-paper-impact-of-microcredit-on-poverty-evidence-from-bangladesh-may-2002.pdf https://www.microfinancegateway.org/sites/default/files/mfg-... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/business/microcredit-for-americans.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/business/microcredit-for-a... [3] https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9b12/726539fadbcaaebcd7ea9da5760d61862fce.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9b12/726539fadbcaaebcd7ea9d...
      - mmirate 9y ago
        My prior expectation of almost any of the aspiring business-owners that you describe, is that they do not have the knowledge necessary to successfully run their business.
gaius 9y ago
I really have difficulties understanding why e.g., utilities would want to have your SSN. What do they get that they otherwise won’t get? I suspect they need to unambiguously identify all customers/payments under anti money laundering regulations. Unintended consequences and all that.

takeda 9y ago

These databases are there essentially to punish you. If you don't pay your utility bill, they report that to the credit agency, and reduces your chances of getting credit elsewhere. These credit information don't give much benefit to Americans, it gives benefits to businesses[1]. It's essentially just a global black list where business can communicate who not to do business with. This business is there for other businesses and we are the product there. This is why people generally have very shitty experience when they have to interact with them, and this is why Equifax thinks the problem is solved when they provide free one year credit monitoring service. [1] note how Equifax thought it was important notice that the core database - the one storing your credit records was not affected. None of Americans care about this, but if the core database storing record was compromised Equifax would disappear overnight without any help of the government, because none of the businesses would want to use it.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> These [sic] credit information don't give much benefit to Americans, it gives benefits to businesses Americans own, work at and consume the products of businesses. If there is a class American law generally holds above investors, in terms of protection, it's consumers. I would also argue consumers benefit from our credit rating agency system, shitty as it is--it allows more people to get cheaper credit faster and more easily than if we had to establish trust at every commercial interaction.
- njarboe 9y ago
  I would suggest that getting credit faster and more easily is not a benefit for consumers but a benefit to business also.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > I would suggest that getting credit faster and more easily is not a benefit for consumers but a benefit to business also Access to credit reduces poverty, internationally [1] and domestically [2]. It is also critical to letting poor and middle class individuals start small businesses [3]. Consumers and businesses benefit from financial systems that efficiently allocate credit. That's why both consumers and businesses voluntarily finance purchases with credit. (This is not a Panglossian claim that our system is perfect. Credit is better than no credit for consumers. Our current CRA system, while a complete mess, is still probably better than forcing trust to be re-ascertained at every commercial interaction.) [1] https://www.microfinancegateway.org/sites/default/files/mfg-en-paper-impact-of-microcredit-on-poverty-evidence-from-bangladesh-may-2002.pdf https://www.microfinancegateway.org/sites/default/files/mfg-... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/business/microcredit-for-americans.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/business/microcredit-for-a... [3] https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9b12/726539fadbcaaebcd7ea9da5760d61862fce.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9b12/726539fadbcaaebcd7ea9d...
    - mmirate 9y ago
      My prior expectation of almost any of the aspiring business-owners that you describe, is that they do not have the knowledge necessary to successfully run their business.

gaius 9y ago

I really have difficulties understanding why e.g., utilities would want to have your SSN. What do they get that they otherwise won’t get? I suspect they need to unambiguously identify all customers/payments under anti money laundering regulations. Unintended consequences and all that.