4 ms·

Just finished a thought provoking book on my flight this afternoon titled Man's Search for Meaning which may shed light on potential underlying causes of this c

Just finished a thought provoking book on my flight this afternoon titled Man's Search for Meaning which may shed light on potential underlying causes of this crisis. Interesting that decades ago psychologists observed broad differences in the psychological "health" of men living in the US versus Europe for example that potentially left them more susceptible to physiologically degenerative ailments like depression, suicide and drug addiction. I think that one of the defining challenges of our life time will be to figure out a way to broadly replace in society the sense of purpose and meaning one derives from religion and spirituality in an increasingly secularized world.

rebuilder 9y ago
But isn't Europe much more secular than the USA?
- anovikov 9y ago
  Yes and that's probably the explanations! European men went through this 2-3 generations ago, and then, they were too busy with the nasty stuff happening back then in Europe.
- lefstathiou 9y ago
  Parts are and parts are definitely not (we are after all comparing continents here). I don't believe secularism is the only consideration at play. The question(s) I am noodling on (for myself and broadly) is: do these young men have a sense of purpose and meaning in their lives and if not, is that contributing in a meaningful way to their willingness to engage in degenerative behaviors / drug use? If we entertain this hypothesis for a moment by assuming there is a causal relationship between lack of meaning / purpose and higher propensity to engage in degenerative behavior and severe drug use, it then begs the questions: what changed? Where did people derive meaning and purpose in society before? Where are they getting it now? Where are they likely to get it in the future? Again, entertaining the hypothesis, it would follow that setting up more drug clinics is unlikely to solve the problem because people are unlikely to find meaning through the current format of drug rehabilitation. A better solution long term may be increased emphasis on psychological rehabilitation. I don't have the answer to any of these questions and certainly wouldn't say religion is the only answer. There are alternative ways to accomplish this. For example: as a society we can try to reinstill a greater sense of dignity in labor and non-managerial service roles.
ehnto 9y ago
I have wondered if one of the benefits of being a European is having a rich heritage. Coming from a very new country that really has a limited cultural identity it can be hard to grasp onto anything patriotic that feels legitimate. Couple that with less importance on family values and an increasingly isolated and individualist society it's also hard to come across anything feeling much like a community. Not being able to anchor your contributions to anything meaningful past "a business" it can be easy to feel like it doesn't really matter that much. To poke at the digital world, most of what we create on our computers is ephemeral, transient and bound for quick obsolescence. With no roots in the real world, with no past to be a part of and no community to belong to, our efforts existing briefly at best, perhaps it is no wonder everything is underscored by a lonely existential dread.
- moron4hire 9y ago
  Note to others: "European cultural identity" and "giving men a sense of community" are White Supremacist talking points. You can't put cultural identity into a box. In other words, it's all in your head, it's whatever you make it out to be. The various European countries don't have it any more than we do, and we in "young countries" are not lacking in it. A community is only those people in your immediate social sphere. You can't have a "national sense of community" because you don't interact with everyone in the nation. White Supremacists talk about a lack a "sense of community", because they are actively refusing to acknowledge their physical neighbours as a part of their community. The reason Richard Spencer and his ilk talk so much about "European Cultural Identity" is because of a perverse jealousy of Black Cultural Identity. It's a long-con job that attempts to hand-waive over the vast differences in individual European countries' cultural heritages and ignore that the only reason there is such a thing as "Black Cultural Identity" is because slavery stripped African Americans of their more specific heritage. I can trace my family heritage back more than a thousand years. Few, if any, African Americans can go back any further than 150. They don't even know who in our country might be family, because even once here, their families were ripped apart and scattered to the wind.
  - ehnto 9y ago
    Well, thank you for the warning. I was certainly trying to tread carefully, as at least in Australia, patriotism or nationalism is becoming synonymous with racism and bigotry, two things I am absolutely not advocating, and my comment had nothing to do with. I can definitely see what you are saying in your third paragraph, however I would love nothing more than the opposite to happen. One of the things I love about Australia is it's almost complete lack of a single national cuisine, it's a broad spectrum of dozens of different cuisines, often mixed together. A neighbourhood community equivalent of that would be a beautiful thing in my opinion. I also wasn't suggesting that Europe has one homogeneous identity, I was thinking in my head more about strong identities tied to the individual countries and their histories rather than Europe as a whole. The buildings alone can date back centuries which, I know when I am in the presence of buildings that old, I feel a strong connection to the past. In regards to a local community, what I was referring to is division on an individual level, where technology is driving individualism so strongly that people don't feel the need to focus on their communities or social groups. Where there may have been regulars at coffee shops who would strike up conversations with eachother and form a small community, perhaps one of many interconnected communities. What I see happening is individuals sitting at coffee shops alone on their phones, not engaging with anyone. I've been trying to re-engage with the community which is why this was an interesting talking point for me, but I've noticed that while it's great that I am not face first into my phone, it hasn't helped that much as everyone else still is. Trying to get groups of friends together normally results in half of them bailing because it's easy to do. I noticed when I ditched my phone entirely for a few weeks, I was much better at going places to see people, because I said I would and had no easy out.

rebuilder 9y ago

But isn't Europe much more secular than the USA?

anovikov 9y ago
Yes and that's probably the explanations! European men went through this 2-3 generations ago, and then, they were too busy with the nasty stuff happening back then in Europe.
lefstathiou 9y ago
Parts are and parts are definitely not (we are after all comparing continents here). I don't believe secularism is the only consideration at play. The question(s) I am noodling on (for myself and broadly) is: do these young men have a sense of purpose and meaning in their lives and if not, is that contributing in a meaningful way to their willingness to engage in degenerative behaviors / drug use? If we entertain this hypothesis for a moment by assuming there is a causal relationship between lack of meaning / purpose and higher propensity to engage in degenerative behavior and severe drug use, it then begs the questions: what changed? Where did people derive meaning and purpose in society before? Where are they getting it now? Where are they likely to get it in the future? Again, entertaining the hypothesis, it would follow that setting up more drug clinics is unlikely to solve the problem because people are unlikely to find meaning through the current format of drug rehabilitation. A better solution long term may be increased emphasis on psychological rehabilitation. I don't have the answer to any of these questions and certainly wouldn't say religion is the only answer. There are alternative ways to accomplish this. For example: as a society we can try to reinstill a greater sense of dignity in labor and non-managerial service roles.

ehnto 9y ago

I have wondered if one of the benefits of being a European is having a rich heritage. Coming from a very new country that really has a limited cultural identity it can be hard to grasp onto anything patriotic that feels legitimate. Couple that with less importance on family values and an increasingly isolated and individualist society it's also hard to come across anything feeling much like a community. Not being able to anchor your contributions to anything meaningful past "a business" it can be easy to feel like it doesn't really matter that much. To poke at the digital world, most of what we create on our computers is ephemeral, transient and bound for quick obsolescence. With no roots in the real world, with no past to be a part of and no community to belong to, our efforts existing briefly at best, perhaps it is no wonder everything is underscored by a lonely existential dread.

moron4hire 9y ago
Note to others: "European cultural identity" and "giving men a sense of community" are White Supremacist talking points. You can't put cultural identity into a box. In other words, it's all in your head, it's whatever you make it out to be. The various European countries don't have it any more than we do, and we in "young countries" are not lacking in it. A community is only those people in your immediate social sphere. You can't have a "national sense of community" because you don't interact with everyone in the nation. White Supremacists talk about a lack a "sense of community", because they are actively refusing to acknowledge their physical neighbours as a part of their community. The reason Richard Spencer and his ilk talk so much about "European Cultural Identity" is because of a perverse jealousy of Black Cultural Identity. It's a long-con job that attempts to hand-waive over the vast differences in individual European countries' cultural heritages and ignore that the only reason there is such a thing as "Black Cultural Identity" is because slavery stripped African Americans of their more specific heritage. I can trace my family heritage back more than a thousand years. Few, if any, African Americans can go back any further than 150. They don't even know who in our country might be family, because even once here, their families were ripped apart and scattered to the wind.
- ehnto 9y ago
  Well, thank you for the warning. I was certainly trying to tread carefully, as at least in Australia, patriotism or nationalism is becoming synonymous with racism and bigotry, two things I am absolutely not advocating, and my comment had nothing to do with. I can definitely see what you are saying in your third paragraph, however I would love nothing more than the opposite to happen. One of the things I love about Australia is it's almost complete lack of a single national cuisine, it's a broad spectrum of dozens of different cuisines, often mixed together. A neighbourhood community equivalent of that would be a beautiful thing in my opinion. I also wasn't suggesting that Europe has one homogeneous identity, I was thinking in my head more about strong identities tied to the individual countries and their histories rather than Europe as a whole. The buildings alone can date back centuries which, I know when I am in the presence of buildings that old, I feel a strong connection to the past. In regards to a local community, what I was referring to is division on an individual level, where technology is driving individualism so strongly that people don't feel the need to focus on their communities or social groups. Where there may have been regulars at coffee shops who would strike up conversations with eachother and form a small community, perhaps one of many interconnected communities. What I see happening is individuals sitting at coffee shops alone on their phones, not engaging with anyone. I've been trying to re-engage with the community which is why this was an interesting talking point for me, but I've noticed that while it's great that I am not face first into my phone, it hasn't helped that much as everyone else still is. Trying to get groups of friends together normally results in half of them bailing because it's easy to do. I noticed when I ditched my phone entirely for a few weeks, I was much better at going places to see people, because I said I would and had no easy out.