5 ms·

Their progress is probably owed to authoritarianism more than anything else. South Korea. Taiwan were also basically dictatorships for much of their growth. Wh

Their progress is probably owed to authoritarianism more than anything else. South Korea. Taiwan were also basically dictatorships for much of their growth. Whether or not communism is good or bad is basically defined by whether or not the country is US-friendly.

flamedoge 9y ago
Probably had to do with a smart dictator. There are lots of examples of bad authoritarians.
- chrischen 9y ago
  Problem with dictators is you have to get lucky with a good one.
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    you mean it is different in the US? what a joke.
    - labster 9y ago
      Of course it's different. A bad dictator can single-handedly ruin a country. A bad president needs collaborators to ruin a country.
      - dis-sys 9y ago
        > A bad president needs collaborators to ruin a country collaborators? trump seems to have a good supply of such collaborators how trump got the Muslim ban, transgender ban, quit Paris agreement. oh, let's don't forget his ongoing efforts to build the wall, kill the public healthcare, stop global trade... US democracy is nothing else but free Internet entertainment
        chii 9y ago
        He'll be gone in a few years, and those things didn't ruin the country (contrary to popular belief). It just ruins the reputation. And that regularly resets at the next election. What really ruins the US is the large amount of apathetic people who don't actually care enough to vote or participate in civic duties.
      - incompatible 9y ago
        Dictators need collaborators too, as far as I know. I can't imagine anyone single-handedly taking control of a country's government and operating it without help.
- Iv 9y ago
  Thing is, China does not have one dictator. The prime minister changes regularly and his ability to cling to power is limited by opaque (but apparently efficient) check and balances at the top level of the PCC. I tried to read more about it two years ago and was surprised to see academics complaining about the lack of a political science model of the Chinese government (apart from the one provided by the PCC propaganda). In one word: we don't know how it works.
  - _jgdh 9y ago
    It's been a stable system since Deng stepped down but the word is that Xi Jinping is trying to mess with that. He's purging the Party of people not personally loyal to him so he might be considering staying on for a third term.
    - Iv 9y ago
      Do you have sources on that? I'd like to read more about it.
      - _jgdh 9y ago
        Since the 1980s only 2 Politburo members have been purged. The first was Bo Xilai in 2002, Xi Jinping's main rival for the top job. The second was Sun Zhengcai, in July. He was being groomed as a successor to Xi Jinping. This purge prompted speculation that Xi would prefer no successor at all. Source - https://www.economist.com/news/china/21725338-would-he-prefer-have-no-heirs-apparent-potential-successor-xi-jinping-purged https://www.economist.com/news/china/21725338-would-he-prefe...
        Iv 9y ago
        Was there really suspicion that Bo Xilai trial was political? I got the impression that he could be judged despite his political influence. For murdering a British journalist nonetheless, which proved him to be at the head of a crime organization. Are there elements that indicate this is a total set-up? Sun is Bo's successor in the same province. When you remove the leader of a crime ring, the ring still exists. I think that these accusations are pretty credible. 2 members in 15 years, in a country that's supposed to be struggling with corruption, that's nor something that looks that unusual.
meri_dian 9y ago
Communism has nothing to do with it. China is a capitalist nation. They have an authoritarian government that can muster tremendous resources and quickly set them towards it's goals.
Iv 9y ago
Communism has less to do with it than centralization of decisions and a smart positioning between free market and dirigisme.
vidarh 9y ago
Look at the history of their GDP growth, and you can see it take off the moment they got political stability. You see this for a lot of countries. China floundered during the regular purges and political re-alignments. But when the government stopped infighting (at least openly) and instead started pulling in one direction (even though that included a lot of lining their own pockets too), GDP growth shot up. It's not surprising really - if your government is predictable you can learn to work around most things. If they keep changing the way you have to relate to them, it's much harder. The perhaps slightly more surprising thing is when you start comparing more countries and see how little internal political factors seem to matter at all. E.g. changing governments rarely produces more than a blip as long as the handover itself is not disruptive.
devdoomari 9y ago
heck look at what the Chinese gov did during 'cultural revolution' - all the stupid stuff imaginable. Stupidity only possible due to non-restricted communism. "let's kill all the birds! they're eating everything" - which resulted in...

flamedoge 9y ago

Probably had to do with a smart dictator. There are lots of examples of bad authoritarians.

chrischen 9y ago
Problem with dictators is you have to get lucky with a good one.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  you mean it is different in the US? what a joke.
  - labster 9y ago
    Of course it's different. A bad dictator can single-handedly ruin a country. A bad president needs collaborators to ruin a country.
    - dis-sys 9y ago
      > A bad president needs collaborators to ruin a country collaborators? trump seems to have a good supply of such collaborators how trump got the Muslim ban, transgender ban, quit Paris agreement. oh, let's don't forget his ongoing efforts to build the wall, kill the public healthcare, stop global trade... US democracy is nothing else but free Internet entertainment
      - chii 9y ago
        He'll be gone in a few years, and those things didn't ruin the country (contrary to popular belief). It just ruins the reputation. And that regularly resets at the next election. What really ruins the US is the large amount of apathetic people who don't actually care enough to vote or participate in civic duties.
    - incompatible 9y ago
      Dictators need collaborators too, as far as I know. I can't imagine anyone single-handedly taking control of a country's government and operating it without help.
Iv 9y ago
Thing is, China does not have one dictator. The prime minister changes regularly and his ability to cling to power is limited by opaque (but apparently efficient) check and balances at the top level of the PCC. I tried to read more about it two years ago and was surprised to see academics complaining about the lack of a political science model of the Chinese government (apart from the one provided by the PCC propaganda). In one word: we don't know how it works.
- _jgdh 9y ago
  It's been a stable system since Deng stepped down but the word is that Xi Jinping is trying to mess with that. He's purging the Party of people not personally loyal to him so he might be considering staying on for a third term.
  - Iv 9y ago
    Do you have sources on that? I'd like to read more about it.
    - _jgdh 9y ago
      Since the 1980s only 2 Politburo members have been purged. The first was Bo Xilai in 2002, Xi Jinping's main rival for the top job. The second was Sun Zhengcai, in July. He was being groomed as a successor to Xi Jinping. This purge prompted speculation that Xi would prefer no successor at all. Source - https://www.economist.com/news/china/21725338-would-he-prefer-have-no-heirs-apparent-potential-successor-xi-jinping-purged https://www.economist.com/news/china/21725338-would-he-prefe...
      - Iv 9y ago
        Was there really suspicion that Bo Xilai trial was political? I got the impression that he could be judged despite his political influence. For murdering a British journalist nonetheless, which proved him to be at the head of a crime organization. Are there elements that indicate this is a total set-up? Sun is Bo's successor in the same province. When you remove the leader of a crime ring, the ring still exists. I think that these accusations are pretty credible. 2 members in 15 years, in a country that's supposed to be struggling with corruption, that's nor something that looks that unusual.

meri_dian 9y ago

Communism has nothing to do with it. China is a capitalist nation. They have an authoritarian government that can muster tremendous resources and quickly set them towards it's goals.

Iv 9y ago

Communism has less to do with it than centralization of decisions and a smart positioning between free market and dirigisme.

vidarh 9y ago

Look at the history of their GDP growth, and you can see it take off the moment they got political stability. You see this for a lot of countries. China floundered during the regular purges and political re-alignments. But when the government stopped infighting (at least openly) and instead started pulling in one direction (even though that included a lot of lining their own pockets too), GDP growth shot up. It's not surprising really - if your government is predictable you can learn to work around most things. If they keep changing the way you have to relate to them, it's much harder. The perhaps slightly more surprising thing is when you start comparing more countries and see how little internal political factors seem to matter at all. E.g. changing governments rarely produces more than a blip as long as the handover itself is not disruptive.

devdoomari 9y ago

heck look at what the Chinese gov did during 'cultural revolution' - all the stupid stuff imaginable. Stupidity only possible due to non-restricted communism. "let's kill all the birds! they're eating everything" - which resulted in...