5 ms·

Well, we can agree to disagree here, but my belief is that OO is a impedence mismatch for writing "low-level efficiency of direct pointer manipulation and other

by zedshaw 16y ago

Well, we can agree to disagree here, but my belief is that OO is a impedence mismatch for writing "low-level efficiency of direct pointer manipulation and other C features". It's kind of like saying, "There is no 16 wheel semi truck that can win the Tour De France." Maybe you shouldn't be using a 16 wheel truck.

joe_the_user 16y ago
If we're both posting, we agree that we disagree... (along with agreeing that Paris is the capital of France..) Anyway, C++ is more like a construction system which can be used to make a bicycle, a semi, or a six-person tandem which could win the Tour De France. Which is to say it's pretty clunky for a lot of things. But there are still things where both large scale organization and particular low-calls need to coexist - Databases, large graphics programs, etc. It's not impossible to write these in C or Java obviously but I'd still say C++ is cleaner.
kragen 16y ago
If you cut a couple wheels off of an 18-wheeler, you could travel the 3642 km of the Tour de France in about 36 hours of driving, which would be about 3 days on a leisurely, safe schedule. The bicyclists take 22 days to do the same thing. So, there are really only a couple of problems: • if you're Zed Shaw, you apparently want to cut two wheels off an 18-wheeler, and if you're Zed Shaw, you're likely to screw up and choose the drive wheels for your demented sacrifice. You do that, the sucker won't even roll. • the stupid hatas who judge the race won't acknowledge your achievement. Something about the allowed types of bicycle. Is that analogous to how you can't run Ruby on a microcontroller with 1024 bytes of RAM, maybe? Because you can sure as fuck run C++ on it. Anyway, direct pointer manipulation has been part of OO environments since the beginning. The purest current incarnation might be SqueakNOS (ever seen an IDE driver written in Smalltalk?) or SBCL's alien, but the most practical one is probably C++. Rust, Golang, and ATS seem like up-and-coming contenders. Edit: oh, I forgot D. D's been an up-and-coming contender for more than ten years now.
- kragen 16y ago
  And Vala. How could I forget Vala?

by zedshaw 16y ago

joe_the_user 16y ago

If we're both posting, we agree that we disagree... (along with agreeing that Paris is the capital of France..) Anyway, C++ is more like a construction system which can be used to make a bicycle, a semi, or a six-person tandem which could win the Tour De France. Which is to say it's pretty clunky for a lot of things. But there are still things where both large scale organization and particular low-calls need to coexist - Databases, large graphics programs, etc. It's not impossible to write these in C or Java obviously but I'd still say C++ is cleaner.

kragen 16y ago

If you cut a couple wheels off of an 18-wheeler, you could travel the 3642 km of the Tour de France in about 36 hours of driving, which would be about 3 days on a leisurely, safe schedule. The bicyclists take 22 days to do the same thing. So, there are really only a couple of problems: • if you're Zed Shaw, you apparently want to cut two wheels off an 18-wheeler, and if you're Zed Shaw, you're likely to screw up and choose the drive wheels for your demented sacrifice. You do that, the sucker won't even roll. • the stupid hatas who judge the race won't acknowledge your achievement. Something about the allowed types of bicycle. Is that analogous to how you can't run Ruby on a microcontroller with 1024 bytes of RAM, maybe? Because you can sure as fuck run C++ on it. Anyway, direct pointer manipulation has been part of OO environments since the beginning. The purest current incarnation might be SqueakNOS (ever seen an IDE driver written in Smalltalk?) or SBCL's alien, but the most practical one is probably C++. Rust, Golang, and ATS seem like up-and-coming contenders. Edit: oh, I forgot D. D's been an up-and-coming contender for more than ten years now.

kragen 16y ago
And Vala. How could I forget Vala?