5 ms·

>In the complaint filed in Portland, Ore., federal court, users alleged Equifax was negligent in failing to protect consumer data, choosing to save money instea

by eduren 9y ago

>In the complaint filed in Portland, Ore., federal court, users alleged Equifax was negligent in failing to protect consumer data, choosing to save money instead of spending on technical safeguards that could have stopped the attack. Doesn't "users" imply that we had a choice in the matter? As if we're Equifax's customers? I feel more like we're victims in this case.

YCode 9y ago
One thing I'm not sure about is how this breaks down as to people who paid Equifax or signed up for some service through them compared with people who involuntarily had their credit tracked through Equifax.
- vthallam 9y ago
  I was wondering about this too. Like, I never signed up for them, but apparently their site says I might have been affected. CreditKarma or other credit score companies apparently share user data to these agencies. Their announcement says social security, addresses and names have been stolen, this is really worse, this data is enough to do ton of things.
  - harryh 9y ago
    CreditKarma doesn't give info to Equifax, it gets info from Equifax. The credit agencies (of which equifax is one of 3) get their info from credit card companies and other financial institutions. If you've ever signed up for a credit card or gotten a mortgage or car loan the information from that transaction was sent to the credit reporting agencies. That's how they get data to make their determination of how credit worthy you are.
flatline 9y ago
If you've ever opened a bank account or a line of credit you signed something to the effect that you agreed to let your institution share your data with these agencies.
- hueving 9y ago
  That doesn't make you a user. It just means the bank gave them your info.
  - i_cant_speel 9y ago
    After you made the choice to allow them to.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      The non-negotiable choice between allowing them to and being denied service entirely.
      - harryh 9y ago
        It doesn't seem crazy to me that if you ask for someone to loan you money they only do it under the condition that you agree to participate in a system that helps them track your creditworthiness.
        logfromblammo 9y ago
        It does make sense for lenders to cartelize and force each other to report the creditworthiness-affecting information about their borrowers to one another. It doesn't make much sense for borrowers, though. But since, by definition, the lenders have the money and the borrowers do not, the borrowers have no real ability to negotiate when lenders get together and do things like that. But borrowers can vote just as much as lenders can, which is why such behavior is governed by law. So let's not pretend that borrowers somehow agreed to this system in any way. It was forced upon them, and the best they could do about it is pass laws to ensure that lenders at least had to be accurate when reporting, and had to respond reasonably to disputes. Since lenders can lobby and vote, too, borrowers were not able to mandate that the lenders would have much in the way of legal liability when they inevitably get lazy, screw up, and cause real damages to real people. The law isn't fair; it's just the best compromise that adversarial parties with differing amounts of money, power, and motivation could reach a threshold level of agreement on. It just so happens that a savvy and motivated borrower can completely whitewash their own credit reports for the cost of a few stamps, and maybe some small claims suits, while an ignorant borrower, or one who lacks the time and energy to ride herd on the CRAs, can get completely screwed. It's a numbers game, and the lenders and CRAs can make more money from the latter category than they lose from the former.
rwmj 9y ago
I had a problem signing up for a mobile phone contract a while ago. The mobile company eventually told me that Equifax were supplying them with (my) information which was slightly different from what I was saying about myself, so I called up Equifax. To "fix" things, Equifax wanted me to send a notarised copy of my passport to them (at my expense!) Of course I told them to get lost and just used another mobile provider, but I learned from this episode that all of these consumer services companies share data both ways with these credit checking agencies.
Taek 9y ago
Got an email from my Dad today: "I checked myself, my wife, you and your brother. To the best of my knowledge none of us have Equifax accounts, but it says they probably got our address & driver's license for all four of us. I don't want to waste money on LifeLock. What can I do? Just watch my accounts?" Is Visa, MasterCard, etc. at least partially to blame here for picking a bad solution? My personal ties are not with Equifax, I have no direct means as a consumer to express dissatisfaction. Can I sue Visa? They are they ones (I presume anyway) who did the actual information collection from me, and then it was mishandled. We need more tools for dealing with data breaches. Things aren't slowing down, and they aren't going to unless something big changes.
- jaranha 9y ago
  You should watch your accounts. I use Credit Karma and they will send you alerts and updates for various credit events (account opening/closing, paying off a balance, etc). It's free. Edit: They only monitor TransUnion and Equifax data; not Experian. If you don't want to pay for LifeLock, which I agree is a bit steep, you can usually get an identity theft protection policy from most major insurances companies. The premiums vary, but are usually a fraction of LifeLock's fees. Just be sure you understand what's covered. I use both of those and it costs me $25/yr total. You can check the Fair Credit Reporting Act for more information about various parties' responsibilities in handling your credit information. However, I don't think you'd be able to sue lenders/creditors in this case. They are distinct from the credit reporting agency that seems to be at fault.
  - throwaway613834 9y ago
    > I use Credit Karma > They only monitor TransUnion and Equifax data Where do you see that they monitor Equifax data? I only see TransUnion mentioned.
- trounce 9y ago
  Visa and MasterCard don't issue credit cards, don't provide credit, don't have your personal information, and don't provide personal information to credit agencies. They are just the network that connects card issuing banks and merchant acquiring banks to process payments. Your contract is with your card issuer, who provided your personal information to the credit agencies. But you probably agreed not to sue them as part of your agreement when you asked them to issue you a card.
madez 9y ago
This is why data protection laws are needed. Data about a person needs to belong to the person. This would prevent these large collections without consent.

by eduren 9y ago

YCode 9y ago

One thing I'm not sure about is how this breaks down as to people who paid Equifax or signed up for some service through them compared with people who involuntarily had their credit tracked through Equifax.

vthallam 9y ago
I was wondering about this too. Like, I never signed up for them, but apparently their site says I might have been affected. CreditKarma or other credit score companies apparently share user data to these agencies. Their announcement says social security, addresses and names have been stolen, this is really worse, this data is enough to do ton of things.
- harryh 9y ago
  CreditKarma doesn't give info to Equifax, it gets info from Equifax. The credit agencies (of which equifax is one of 3) get their info from credit card companies and other financial institutions. If you've ever signed up for a credit card or gotten a mortgage or car loan the information from that transaction was sent to the credit reporting agencies. That's how they get data to make their determination of how credit worthy you are.

flatline 9y ago

If you've ever opened a bank account or a line of credit you signed something to the effect that you agreed to let your institution share your data with these agencies.

hueving 9y ago
That doesn't make you a user. It just means the bank gave them your info.
- i_cant_speel 9y ago
  After you made the choice to allow them to.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    The non-negotiable choice between allowing them to and being denied service entirely.
    - harryh 9y ago
      It doesn't seem crazy to me that if you ask for someone to loan you money they only do it under the condition that you agree to participate in a system that helps them track your creditworthiness.
      - logfromblammo 9y ago
        It does make sense for lenders to cartelize and force each other to report the creditworthiness-affecting information about their borrowers to one another. It doesn't make much sense for borrowers, though. But since, by definition, the lenders have the money and the borrowers do not, the borrowers have no real ability to negotiate when lenders get together and do things like that. But borrowers can vote just as much as lenders can, which is why such behavior is governed by law. So let's not pretend that borrowers somehow agreed to this system in any way. It was forced upon them, and the best they could do about it is pass laws to ensure that lenders at least had to be accurate when reporting, and had to respond reasonably to disputes. Since lenders can lobby and vote, too, borrowers were not able to mandate that the lenders would have much in the way of legal liability when they inevitably get lazy, screw up, and cause real damages to real people. The law isn't fair; it's just the best compromise that adversarial parties with differing amounts of money, power, and motivation could reach a threshold level of agreement on. It just so happens that a savvy and motivated borrower can completely whitewash their own credit reports for the cost of a few stamps, and maybe some small claims suits, while an ignorant borrower, or one who lacks the time and energy to ride herd on the CRAs, can get completely screwed. It's a numbers game, and the lenders and CRAs can make more money from the latter category than they lose from the former.

rwmj 9y ago

I had a problem signing up for a mobile phone contract a while ago. The mobile company eventually told me that Equifax were supplying them with (my) information which was slightly different from what I was saying about myself, so I called up Equifax. To "fix" things, Equifax wanted me to send a notarised copy of my passport to them (at my expense!) Of course I told them to get lost and just used another mobile provider, but I learned from this episode that all of these consumer services companies share data both ways with these credit checking agencies.

Taek 9y ago

Got an email from my Dad today: "I checked myself, my wife, you and your brother. To the best of my knowledge none of us have Equifax accounts, but it says they probably got our address & driver's license for all four of us. I don't want to waste money on LifeLock. What can I do? Just watch my accounts?" Is Visa, MasterCard, etc. at least partially to blame here for picking a bad solution? My personal ties are not with Equifax, I have no direct means as a consumer to express dissatisfaction. Can I sue Visa? They are they ones (I presume anyway) who did the actual information collection from me, and then it was mishandled. We need more tools for dealing with data breaches. Things aren't slowing down, and they aren't going to unless something big changes.

jaranha 9y ago
You should watch your accounts. I use Credit Karma and they will send you alerts and updates for various credit events (account opening/closing, paying off a balance, etc). It's free. Edit: They only monitor TransUnion and Equifax data; not Experian. If you don't want to pay for LifeLock, which I agree is a bit steep, you can usually get an identity theft protection policy from most major insurances companies. The premiums vary, but are usually a fraction of LifeLock's fees. Just be sure you understand what's covered. I use both of those and it costs me $25/yr total. You can check the Fair Credit Reporting Act for more information about various parties' responsibilities in handling your credit information. However, I don't think you'd be able to sue lenders/creditors in this case. They are distinct from the credit reporting agency that seems to be at fault.
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  > I use Credit Karma > They only monitor TransUnion and Equifax data Where do you see that they monitor Equifax data? I only see TransUnion mentioned.
trounce 9y ago
Visa and MasterCard don't issue credit cards, don't provide credit, don't have your personal information, and don't provide personal information to credit agencies. They are just the network that connects card issuing banks and merchant acquiring banks to process payments. Your contract is with your card issuer, who provided your personal information to the credit agencies. But you probably agreed not to sue them as part of your agreement when you asked them to issue you a card.

madez 9y ago

This is why data protection laws are needed. Data about a person needs to belong to the person. This would prevent these large collections without consent.