5 ms·

I wonder if all of Musk's enterprises (all of which seem in some way synergistic) will be formally grouped together a la an "Alphabet". What are the pros/cons

by aroman 9y ago

I wonder if all of Musk's enterprises (all of which seem in some way synergistic) will be formally grouped together a la an "Alphabet". What are the pros/cons of doing this from a financial/legal/organizational perspective?

tw04 9y ago
I doubt it, they all face far too big of a risk from a financial downside perspective with little to gain other than slashing "corporate overhead" - read redundant positions in things like HR and accounting. On the flip side, if Space-X has a couple of failed launches and loses one or two contracts, their debt would crush Tesla. And vice versa if the 3 doesn't take off like Tesla is hoping. There's almost no risk to them sharing IP between the two companies. And given how tightly they're intertwined from an ownership perspective, I would imagine that will continue indefinitely.
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  All his holdings provide a crucial aspect of living on mars, I doubt he lets any of them go under for any reason.
- sukilot 9y ago
  That's not what "a la Alphabet" is. https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/google-parent-alphabet-forms-holding-company-xxvi-to-complete-2015-corporate-reorganization/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/google-parent-alphabet-for...
night815 9y ago
SpaceX cannot hire non-US Citizens because of ITAR. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html
- krasin 9y ago
  This is not exactly correct. They can also hire permanent residents (aka green card holders).
  - goodcanadian 9y ago
    And it is possible to get waivers for particular individuals. However, because of the process involved, it is unlikely to be pursued by someone like SpaceX except in very exceptional cases of getting known international experts.
    - krasin 9y ago
      I have quite a few friends with a green card working for SpaceX. So, it's definitely not an issue for them.
      - goodcanadian 9y ago
        I wasn't talking about green cards. I was talking about "non-US" persons. In other words, I was adding additional information to your comment, not contradicting it in any manner.
        krasin 9y ago
        Apologies, I misunderstood it. You're right.
- hughes 9y ago
  Or at least, it is often prohibitively difficult to do so.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  That Werner Von Braun dude got so lucky.
  - lutorm 9y ago
    He had an ITAR waiver...
reactiveinertia 9y ago
A company that is similar in practice is the giant Samsung. They make electronics, military equipment, ships, missiles, medical equipment, etc... they even make some basic technology for space rockets and cruise missiles. The only thing they don't or can't make is the stage 1 launch system which the US prohibits them from developing and they instead purchase it from Russia. The Samsung family are geniuses at running complex operations, but their basic operations are heavily assisted by other companies and people from other nations. Musk on the otherhand is kind of like the Trump of America's advanced technology industry with the illusion of a heavy liberal bent. His focus is on more of a "white" company, being South American and having escaped from the abolition of Apartheid, he fits in well with what the majority of Americans are looking for. However, the expectation of him being a "white US" friendly operation prevents him from adequately recruiting the needed personnel to run a conglomerate. edit: I understand that some of you are finding it difficult to process how Musk can run companies that appear so attractive, yet ignore its cultural and political structure. It doesn't matter economically. Economically, all that matters is what you perceive of his image and thereby the company(s) whose image you believe-in from what you think you understand of Musk. What works in the US and Europe is to develop a latent "white supremacist" image with a strong undertone, without any direct overtures. The only difference between Western liberalism/democracy/etc... and Western Fascism/Racism/Consveratism etc... is how the basis and execution of this idea of supremacy is viewed and communicated.
- drzaiusapelord 9y ago
  Uh, I seriously doubt Musk gives two shits about his "whiteness," whatever that means. SpaceX can't hire non-citizens because of ITAR regulations. So no armies of Tata consultants and other H1B mills.
- njarboe 9y ago
  Well, if your main goal is building rockets, ITAR regulations are going to hold you back from hiring globally. (Also: South Africa not South America)
- lovich 9y ago
  I'm gonna need some more clarification on this white company stuff. Those are big claims I've never heard before
pyoung 9y ago
I think their financials are already fairly intertwined, to the point where if one fails, they all fail[1]. Part of the outrage over the SolarCity purchase was that people were worried that Musk was just trying to bail out SolarCity (solar was and still is going through a bit of a downturn). [1] https://electrek.co/2016/03/22/elon-musk-spacex-solar-bonds-solarcity/ https://electrek.co/2016/03/22/elon-musk-spacex-solar-bonds-...

by aroman 9y ago

tw04 9y ago

I doubt it, they all face far too big of a risk from a financial downside perspective with little to gain other than slashing "corporate overhead" - read redundant positions in things like HR and accounting. On the flip side, if Space-X has a couple of failed launches and loses one or two contracts, their debt would crush Tesla. And vice versa if the 3 doesn't take off like Tesla is hoping. There's almost no risk to them sharing IP between the two companies. And given how tightly they're intertwined from an ownership perspective, I would imagine that will continue indefinitely.

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
All his holdings provide a crucial aspect of living on mars, I doubt he lets any of them go under for any reason.
sukilot 9y ago
That's not what "a la Alphabet" is. https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/google-parent-alphabet-forms-holding-company-xxvi-to-complete-2015-corporate-reorganization/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/google-parent-alphabet-for...

night815 9y ago

SpaceX cannot hire non-US Citizens because of ITAR. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html

krasin 9y ago
This is not exactly correct. They can also hire permanent residents (aka green card holders).
- goodcanadian 9y ago
  And it is possible to get waivers for particular individuals. However, because of the process involved, it is unlikely to be pursued by someone like SpaceX except in very exceptional cases of getting known international experts.
  - krasin 9y ago
    I have quite a few friends with a green card working for SpaceX. So, it's definitely not an issue for them.
    - goodcanadian 9y ago
      I wasn't talking about green cards. I was talking about "non-US" persons. In other words, I was adding additional information to your comment, not contradicting it in any manner.
      - krasin 9y ago
        Apologies, I misunderstood it. You're right.
hughes 9y ago
Or at least, it is often prohibitively difficult to do so.
jacquesm 9y ago
That Werner Von Braun dude got so lucky.
- lutorm 9y ago
  He had an ITAR waiver...

reactiveinertia 9y ago

A company that is similar in practice is the giant Samsung. They make electronics, military equipment, ships, missiles, medical equipment, etc... they even make some basic technology for space rockets and cruise missiles. The only thing they don't or can't make is the stage 1 launch system which the US prohibits them from developing and they instead purchase it from Russia. The Samsung family are geniuses at running complex operations, but their basic operations are heavily assisted by other companies and people from other nations. Musk on the otherhand is kind of like the Trump of America's advanced technology industry with the illusion of a heavy liberal bent. His focus is on more of a "white" company, being South American and having escaped from the abolition of Apartheid, he fits in well with what the majority of Americans are looking for. However, the expectation of him being a "white US" friendly operation prevents him from adequately recruiting the needed personnel to run a conglomerate. edit: I understand that some of you are finding it difficult to process how Musk can run companies that appear so attractive, yet ignore its cultural and political structure. It doesn't matter economically. Economically, all that matters is what you perceive of his image and thereby the company(s) whose image you believe-in from what you think you understand of Musk. What works in the US and Europe is to develop a latent "white supremacist" image with a strong undertone, without any direct overtures. The only difference between Western liberalism/democracy/etc... and Western Fascism/Racism/Consveratism etc... is how the basis and execution of this idea of supremacy is viewed and communicated.

drzaiusapelord 9y ago
Uh, I seriously doubt Musk gives two shits about his "whiteness," whatever that means. SpaceX can't hire non-citizens because of ITAR regulations. So no armies of Tata consultants and other H1B mills.
njarboe 9y ago
Well, if your main goal is building rockets, ITAR regulations are going to hold you back from hiring globally. (Also: South Africa not South America)
lovich 9y ago
I'm gonna need some more clarification on this white company stuff. Those are big claims I've never heard before

pyoung 9y ago

I think their financials are already fairly intertwined, to the point where if one fails, they all fail[1]. Part of the outrage over the SolarCity purchase was that people were worried that Musk was just trying to bail out SolarCity (solar was and still is going through a bit of a downturn). [1] https://electrek.co/2016/03/22/elon-musk-spacex-solar-bonds-solarcity/ https://electrek.co/2016/03/22/elon-musk-spacex-solar-bonds-...