4 ms·

He may have recovered the convenience, but maybe not the quality [1]. Whenever I google this I'm amazed at the sheer delusion of the apple fanboy's publishing

by dm319 9y ago

He may have recovered the convenience, but maybe not the quality [1]. Whenever I google this I'm amazed at the sheer delusion of the apple fanboy's publishing empire[2] with so many pseudo-technical articles explaining, for example, how a digital output is better than an analogue output and that it does away with a DAC. Hmmm. Disappointed to hear that google will follow with the pixel 2. [1] http://bgr.com/2016/09/20/iphone-7-headphones-jack-sound-test/ http://bgr.com/2016/09/20/iphone-7-headphones-jack-sound-tes... [2] http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/no-stereo-jack-no-problem-iphone-7-sounds-great/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/no-stereo-jack-no-problem-iphon...

gambiting 9y ago
I was waiting for the Pixel 2, but if it really doesn't have a headphone jack then it's 100% no-buy for me.
- sapphire_tomb 9y ago
  Ditto. Love the Pixel XL I have currently. I've used many BT headsets, and I'm not sold on any of them, because it's yet another thing to charge. I've got my nice Shure earbuds that I've been using for 8 years, and I've no desire to get rid of them. Nor do I want to buy an external DAC, which is also another thing to have to keep charged. Bye google.
- lightbyte 9y ago
  Hopefully the original Pixels will get a sizeable price drop so I can buy that one instead (assuming the 2 really does have no jack).
amiga-workbench 9y ago
Somehow I don't trust most headphone manufacturers to include a decent DAC. The price of a pair of Beats headphones in no way corresponds with the quality of the drivers inside or the build quality of the unit itself, since they tend to blow most of the profits on fancy marketing and packaging I can't be sure they're not going to cheap out on the DAC too.
- smegel 9y ago
  Interestingly, many people have been using digital out into a portable high quality dac/amp on a range of devices for many years. Quality blows away anything inside a phone or headphones, and can drive larger headphones, and has an analogue volume control, multi jack outputs and separate battery supply. I would recommend this option over old school headphone jacks or new "digital" headphones.
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    Yeah, I've seen people rubber banding classic iPods onto pile of DAC's and headphone amps, it looks a bit strange.
- new299 9y ago
  Hmm, there are good headphone manufacturers though. Shure make decent, relatively cheap in-ear headphones. They also have a lightening port interface set.
- rusk 9y ago
  I foresee a thriving secondary market in high quality DACs that people can just connect their extant headphones to. I hope this can work just by way way of plugging directly into the lightning port otherise it's another thing for me to charge sigh
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    Remember the awesome inline-controls Sony used to have on their minidisc players? I wouldn't mind seeing those come back with an integrated DAC and a small OLED display for track info.
    - rusk 9y ago
      This should in theory be possible with current generation technology. I can get this info on my car stereo whether playing across bluetooth or usb, and I could get it on my pebble watch, but frustratingly it's very hard otherwise to find standalone devices that do this. As far as I can make out it's all down to differing bluetooth application profiles and licencing. Again from a customer point of view very frustrating.
new299 9y ago
The article you mention (2) does not appear to say that it "does away with a DAC". Rather, it correctly states that by using a digital interface the user has choice to select their own DAC, built into the headphones. Users can of course use any USB headset with a USB adapter if they want. The other article, which you use to support the fact that the external audio is lower quality states "the bottom line is that the difference is going to be completely imperceptible to most people.". And of course, other options than Apple's included headphone adapter are available, which maybe higher quality. There are many valid reasons why you might not like the iPhone, or might want a headphone jack. However the reasons you've provided don't seem valid to me, unless I've misunderstood something.
- dm319 9y ago
  > The 3.5mm port is an analog output on the phone. The lightning port is a digital output. Needless to say, all the circuitry in the phone is digital. So accommodating analog technology isn’t ideal. >By taking out the 3.5mm jack, Apple is removing the need for these two components. The lightning port and lightning input are both digital, so the phone does not need a DAC any more. The iPhone 7 can thus be more battery efficient, and have room for other components (like a bigger battery) in its slim case. These arguments are deluded. The phone might not need a DAC anymore (hang on, I guess it does for the built in speakers), but the user does. It doesn't help with battery efficiency unless the DAC is powered separately, in which case you have two things to charge. Room for other components? Well if you want a bigger battery why don't you just have an extra one attached to a dongle to charge the phone up with? Why not remove the screen, another digital to analog device, to save space and battery, and just have an HDMI out? I know these are silly examples, but a phone brings convenience - it's convenient if a phone can last all day on one charge, and also convenient if it can interface with headphones. Stepping back a bit, these articles seem to crop up periodically - I remember similar about the lack of GPS in the first model, the problems with the 4's antennae etc. Getting a bit philosophical here, but I wonder if the same people who refuse to accept valid criticisms of an Apple product also believe in 'good' and 'bad' people who can either do no bad or do no good. Google translation of the original German page is fairly clear: > With the saving of the jack socket, Apple deteriorates the output quality of the music on the iPhone. While the output sockets of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air itself perform well in comparison with professional audio interfaces, the output on the new Lightning adapter of the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus reaches only the note satisfactorily. >The differences should be noticeable in comparison with similar connected headphones in the price class from 100 euros, especially with uncompressed music files with 24 bit. In the case of lossy compressed music pieces (MP3, AAC), however, most users hardly notice a difference. Bluetooth headphones and digital audio interfaces are not affected by the deterioration. A 4.5dB loss is actually pretty big.

by dm319 9y ago

gambiting 9y ago

I was waiting for the Pixel 2, but if it really doesn't have a headphone jack then it's 100% no-buy for me.

sapphire_tomb 9y ago
Ditto. Love the Pixel XL I have currently. I've used many BT headsets, and I'm not sold on any of them, because it's yet another thing to charge. I've got my nice Shure earbuds that I've been using for 8 years, and I've no desire to get rid of them. Nor do I want to buy an external DAC, which is also another thing to have to keep charged. Bye google.
lightbyte 9y ago
Hopefully the original Pixels will get a sizeable price drop so I can buy that one instead (assuming the 2 really does have no jack).

amiga-workbench 9y ago

Somehow I don't trust most headphone manufacturers to include a decent DAC. The price of a pair of Beats headphones in no way corresponds with the quality of the drivers inside or the build quality of the unit itself, since they tend to blow most of the profits on fancy marketing and packaging I can't be sure they're not going to cheap out on the DAC too.

smegel 9y ago
Interestingly, many people have been using digital out into a portable high quality dac/amp on a range of devices for many years. Quality blows away anything inside a phone or headphones, and can drive larger headphones, and has an analogue volume control, multi jack outputs and separate battery supply. I would recommend this option over old school headphone jacks or new "digital" headphones.
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  Yeah, I've seen people rubber banding classic iPods onto pile of DAC's and headphone amps, it looks a bit strange.
new299 9y ago
Hmm, there are good headphone manufacturers though. Shure make decent, relatively cheap in-ear headphones. They also have a lightening port interface set.
rusk 9y ago
I foresee a thriving secondary market in high quality DACs that people can just connect their extant headphones to. I hope this can work just by way way of plugging directly into the lightning port otherise it's another thing for me to charge sigh
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  Remember the awesome inline-controls Sony used to have on their minidisc players? I wouldn't mind seeing those come back with an integrated DAC and a small OLED display for track info.
  - rusk 9y ago
    This should in theory be possible with current generation technology. I can get this info on my car stereo whether playing across bluetooth or usb, and I could get it on my pebble watch, but frustratingly it's very hard otherwise to find standalone devices that do this. As far as I can make out it's all down to differing bluetooth application profiles and licencing. Again from a customer point of view very frustrating.

new299 9y ago

The article you mention (2) does not appear to say that it "does away with a DAC". Rather, it correctly states that by using a digital interface the user has choice to select their own DAC, built into the headphones. Users can of course use any USB headset with a USB adapter if they want. The other article, which you use to support the fact that the external audio is lower quality states "the bottom line is that the difference is going to be completely imperceptible to most people.". And of course, other options than Apple's included headphone adapter are available, which maybe higher quality. There are many valid reasons why you might not like the iPhone, or might want a headphone jack. However the reasons you've provided don't seem valid to me, unless I've misunderstood something.

dm319 9y ago
> The 3.5mm port is an analog output on the phone. The lightning port is a digital output. Needless to say, all the circuitry in the phone is digital. So accommodating analog technology isn’t ideal. >By taking out the 3.5mm jack, Apple is removing the need for these two components. The lightning port and lightning input are both digital, so the phone does not need a DAC any more. The iPhone 7 can thus be more battery efficient, and have room for other components (like a bigger battery) in its slim case. These arguments are deluded. The phone might not need a DAC anymore (hang on, I guess it does for the built in speakers), but the user does. It doesn't help with battery efficiency unless the DAC is powered separately, in which case you have two things to charge. Room for other components? Well if you want a bigger battery why don't you just have an extra one attached to a dongle to charge the phone up with? Why not remove the screen, another digital to analog device, to save space and battery, and just have an HDMI out? I know these are silly examples, but a phone brings convenience - it's convenient if a phone can last all day on one charge, and also convenient if it can interface with headphones. Stepping back a bit, these articles seem to crop up periodically - I remember similar about the lack of GPS in the first model, the problems with the 4's antennae etc. Getting a bit philosophical here, but I wonder if the same people who refuse to accept valid criticisms of an Apple product also believe in 'good' and 'bad' people who can either do no bad or do no good. Google translation of the original German page is fairly clear: > With the saving of the jack socket, Apple deteriorates the output quality of the music on the iPhone. While the output sockets of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air itself perform well in comparison with professional audio interfaces, the output on the new Lightning adapter of the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus reaches only the note satisfactorily. >The differences should be noticeable in comparison with similar connected headphones in the price class from 100 euros, especially with uncompressed music files with 24 bit. In the case of lossy compressed music pieces (MP3, AAC), however, most users hardly notice a difference. Bluetooth headphones and digital audio interfaces are not affected by the deterioration. A 4.5dB loss is actually pretty big.