5 ms·

Would be great to see a similar national viewpoint on liability issues with SDCs. For example, who is liable (the car owner? manufacturer? algo writer?)

tehlike 9y ago
algo writer should not be liable, unless it's gross negligence or conscious cover up (like VW cases). However, i can imagine a set of guideliness adopted into industry which involves slow rollouts of updates (potentially in a multivariate testing manner controlling for speed variance/distribution, response time, collision proximity (?) or collisions avoided, distance traveled, user comfort score, and so on. In other words, due diligence must be done, before rolling out new releases.
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  Your response makes sense, but that is usually not how the legal system works...i'm curious if all sorts of tangentially or abstractly related parties will be pulled into many lawsuits and then promptly dropped. No ultimate impact w/r/t/ judgements, but a lot of wasted time and legal defense costs.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    For sure. I can imagine businesses simply outsourcing the legal costs to insurance companies.
stale2002 9y ago
The people who pay for self driving car accidents will be the same people as those that pay for them today. The insurance companies. Only now, these insurance companies will be paying 1/4th the amount of money they were before, because of the reduced number of accidents.
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  That is not quite how it works in most US states. Insurance companies cover up to a maximum amount, which is usually enough to cover all damages. However, when the maximum amount is breached, the cost is then bourne by some party which "caused" the accident. Suppose the "driver" of the SDC isnt even driving -- who is that other party? The manufacturer? The algo writer?
  - tw04 9y ago
    As with everything in life it depends. Where did the error occur? Did the brakes fail? MFG of the car. Did the software fail to register the red light? Software MFG. I'm confident regardless of circumstances they can find who is at fault, and worst case scenario of multiple parties at fault - place an appropriate percentage of blame. You know... just like with ever other lawsuit dating back to the beginning of our justice system.
  - stale2002 9y ago
    Or what if the insurance company just offers to pay for all of it for free? It would save the insurance companies billions of dollars to do this, as it would encourage their drivers to stay in self driving mode which will be way safer.
- drewmol 9y ago
  I wonder if potential changes to minimum required liability amounts will lead to higher insurance premiums vs lower? When it's a person's actions responsible for the accident it seems easier to cap these at a lower standard amount vs. a corporation's IP's actions/fault with x-billion in assets...
  - sowbug 9y ago
    Compensatory damage amounts are generally independent of the defendant's means. This is as expected. Your hospital bills and pain/suffering aren't any different if the person whose car ran you over is rich or poor. Punitive damages are another story, but in theory they're not available in cases of ordinary negligence.
klipt 9y ago
For self driving taxis, the car owner, manufacturer and algo writer might all be the same company (e.g. Alphabet). And a company that huge can just self-insure, especially since they have more data on the risk level of their cars than anyone else.

tehlike 9y ago

algo writer should not be liable, unless it's gross negligence or conscious cover up (like VW cases). However, i can imagine a set of guideliness adopted into industry which involves slow rollouts of updates (potentially in a multivariate testing manner controlling for speed variance/distribution, response time, collision proximity (?) or collisions avoided, distance traveled, user comfort score, and so on. In other words, due diligence must be done, before rolling out new releases.

TuringNYC 9y ago
Your response makes sense, but that is usually not how the legal system works...i'm curious if all sorts of tangentially or abstractly related parties will be pulled into many lawsuits and then promptly dropped. No ultimate impact w/r/t/ judgements, but a lot of wasted time and legal defense costs.
- tehlike 9y ago
  For sure. I can imagine businesses simply outsourcing the legal costs to insurance companies.

stale2002 9y ago

The people who pay for self driving car accidents will be the same people as those that pay for them today. The insurance companies. Only now, these insurance companies will be paying 1/4th the amount of money they were before, because of the reduced number of accidents.

TuringNYC 9y ago
That is not quite how it works in most US states. Insurance companies cover up to a maximum amount, which is usually enough to cover all damages. However, when the maximum amount is breached, the cost is then bourne by some party which "caused" the accident. Suppose the "driver" of the SDC isnt even driving -- who is that other party? The manufacturer? The algo writer?
- tw04 9y ago
  As with everything in life it depends. Where did the error occur? Did the brakes fail? MFG of the car. Did the software fail to register the red light? Software MFG. I'm confident regardless of circumstances they can find who is at fault, and worst case scenario of multiple parties at fault - place an appropriate percentage of blame. You know... just like with ever other lawsuit dating back to the beginning of our justice system.
- stale2002 9y ago
  Or what if the insurance company just offers to pay for all of it for free? It would save the insurance companies billions of dollars to do this, as it would encourage their drivers to stay in self driving mode which will be way safer.
drewmol 9y ago
I wonder if potential changes to minimum required liability amounts will lead to higher insurance premiums vs lower? When it's a person's actions responsible for the accident it seems easier to cap these at a lower standard amount vs. a corporation's IP's actions/fault with x-billion in assets...
- sowbug 9y ago
  Compensatory damage amounts are generally independent of the defendant's means. This is as expected. Your hospital bills and pain/suffering aren't any different if the person whose car ran you over is rich or poor. Punitive damages are another story, but in theory they're not available in cases of ordinary negligence.

klipt 9y ago

For self driving taxis, the car owner, manufacturer and algo writer might all be the same company (e.g. Alphabet). And a company that huge can just self-insure, especially since they have more data on the risk level of their cars than anyone else.